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Cummings 6BT in FJ80

Discussion in 'HardCore Corner' started by Project FJ80, Aug 4, 2005.

  1. Project FJ80

    Project FJ80

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    Cummins 6BT in FJ80

    I know this is a question lots of people ask or wonder about.
    What I want to know, Is .. Is it possable to do in an 80?
    I have ready about the one in the 40. Very nice.
    Nothing like going from 8-18mpg up to 28 if you tune it right.
    I am a heavy machinery Diesel mechanic, so I can do all the work except for the fabbing of engine mounts and custom machining.
    This is a future plan i plan to do. meaning sometime between 1-5 years from now.
    I have done lots of reading and serching and studying on this...
    I know that its a heavy engine and the LC is more of a light weight.
    But opinions are priceless.. and you can always learn something weather you mean to or not.
    My plan is to get a 90-94 cummins 6BT 12 valve from a dodge truck.
    I know thier more louder than the new ones.. but I dont want to have to mess with computers.. i just dont like them telling my engine what it can or cant do.
    Also .. theres no way to shut down that year of diesel unless you shut off fuel or shut off air flow. no spark needed.
    The noise can be reduced by tuning also.. matched parts, exhust, intake, turbo etc.
    As far as weight, I can get the block ground to remove many pounds, I can relocate the battiery(s) to the rear of the rig. (50+ lbs) more costly, a custom exhaust.. save 80lbs, rethink arb front bumper/winch, = 300lbs
    and last but not least beef up the frame if needed (get rid of airbags)
    So .. I dont think weight is the best excuse to use as a Dont get that cause its too heavy.
    As far as adapter, tranny transfer case, etc. I donno what im gonna do there.. Yet.
    Now when i open the hood of my 80.. theres a lot of room in there, Enough to stuff even a Cummins.
    I can go with electric fans on the radiator, add a vacuum pump for my hydro brakes,
    The motor mounts would have to be custom made and frame reinforced to take the added torque.
    I would leave the axles stock for now.. dont plan on boosting 600hp and 1000lbs of torque, ... but would like around 300hp and 300-500torque.
    I dont plan on racing this.. so .. I don thave to worry about Ripping anything apart from anywhere. just want the milage and the dependability of a Cummins diesel.
    I have concidered the new 06 Cummins.. but Pice and avi make it a 15-20K project.. im not looking to spend that kind of money..
    I plan on doing it for less than 10K
    First.
    Buy used Dodge Cummins 90-94 no computer on engine.
    auto tranny 4x4 turbo, $2000-$4000
    Find someone to do the engine swap who knows how to Fab. $500-1000
    Misc. Parts and Supplies $500-!000
    Tranny, transfer, install and relocation, driveline $1000-2000
    I do the rest of what is needed.
    Ok.. So., I am looking at an Estemated $5000 up to $8000
    not to shabby concidering what you would pay for a used toyota turbo diesel with a hard to get parts and avi. + $$$ shipping and Parts.
    Next...
    Do i want to keep my Existing Drive Train.. or Should I beef it up.
    Some people say it wont take the extra torque,
    Pluss ill need a custom Bell housing $$$
    If not.. Ill need to go all new (used) from the Engine to the drivelines (F&R)
    Keeping the stock axels.
    What do you think?
    I know that I would like to do this... but Id like to here from everyone else,
    I only here Its too Heavy, Its too expensive, Its too much work, go with a holden, or v8 OR AT ONLY 200-300lbs lighter,... the Duramax.
    I currentaly have a 6" slee lift and 38" tires... so unless I need a body lift.. I think I should have no problems with clearence.
    .....
    -Ron
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2005
  2. MiniPigg

    MiniPigg

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    I think the slushbox is similar to the ones used in the 62.... maybe you can use the AA adapter thats from the FJ62 to convert it over to a GM 6.5TD. I know when I emailed a couple guys down in OZ they said they were very happy with the conversion. Its always an option.
     
  3. warpdriv

    warpdriv

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    This would be cool. 2 other places you might want to post is on the 80 forum herer and the "big list" at tlca.org.
     
  4. JRFJ4-

    JRFJ4-

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    Quiet Cummins

    Don't worry about that thing clattering. CLATTER GOOD/QUIET BAD. My dad is driving a 95 or 96 cummins. 225,000 miles and still running great.

    I think they have ruined the new ones making them too quiet. When the 24 valve engines came out they were too quiet. The new ones are even quieter, something to do with injectors.

    :cheers:

    J.R.
     
  5. Eskimo

    Eskimo SILVER Star

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    No "G" in Cummins.. ;)

    P.S. There are no computers on any Dodge CTD engine up to 1998.4, and the '96 - '98's make more power (but need the intercooler)

    Can't help with anything other than that..
     
  6. Project FJ80

    Project FJ80

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    Well, I just got my truck back today.. its very nice... just have to get the film developed.
    The Krawlers are quite a bit louder than my stock ones.. so .. an extra knock comming from the Diesel wont make much more of a difference.
    Thanks for the update on the up to 1998 CTD. If obtainable for a good price, I may want to look into that.

    Thanks for the info.
    -Ron
     
  7. locrwln1

    locrwln1

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    I would also do some measuring, the cummins is a very tall motor. And as you know, it weighs approximately 1000lbs. I'm not sure that the front axle would support that weight. Dodge used a 60 in the front for a reason. I'm not saying that it can't be done, I think it is really cool, I would just really do your homework. Good luck and if you get it done, make sure and post some pics.
     
  8. Project FJ80

    Project FJ80

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    Well, I have found myself a 2nd generation 12 valve cummins out of a 1997 dodge truck. with all the bells and whistles that come with only the engine .. no tranny...
    So... to make this worth while ( before I BUY)
    What are my chancces at getting a bell housing adapter to mate the Engine to the rest of the toyota drive train....
    2nd question... If I mount the engine to be used with the Toyota drive train, Will I have to move the engine again if I want to use a bigger tranny IE: allison/dodge/misc ????
    I dont want to have to re locate the motor mounts once I get the engine mounted.
    So.. Any Ideas about this??
    -Ron
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2005
  9. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

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    Get the engine, and forget about using the Toyota trans and tcase. This is far from a 'common/bolt up' deal. The people that have done a B swap, have used the flywheel housing from the 4B, ASE 3, I think, that was installed in bread van re-powers, and UPS/FedEx trucks, that used a 465 chev 4 speed tranny....


    Then, get the auto tranny that you seem to want, and then get a tcase.



    The Toyota front axle is not going to be long for the world with that Cummins engine above it, period.



    As others have mentioned, I would MEASURE this whole thing up, A LOT before investing real monies...There are a lot of things that need to be considered with this swap.



    You are going to need an air to air cooler for the later engine to make it's rated power/efficiency...



    You are going to need a radiator far larger than the Toyota unit that is in your truck to begin with...



    You will end up needing to modify the core support to get both of these items tucked into that area, and will need to fabricate air to air piping for the air to air, along with a shroud for the fan.



    As has been mentioned, the 6B engine is tall. You may be able to gain a little by changing out the pan to one from an implement that uses a shallow pan and high oil pickup...




    It is fun to dream, and with enough time and MONEY anyything can be done.



    Good luck!


    -Steve
     
  10. Project FJ80

    Project FJ80

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    I dont know if any of you would know this, but since Cummins is mated to a dodge,
    I have an old charger with a 727 transmission, Is it possible that I could mate it to that?
    As far as wear and tear goes... ill be nice untill I can get a dana 60 under here...
    I know the swap will end up being more than 10K, but im already looking at investing another 20K over the 20K thats in it., so when im done, I guestmate that I will have about 50-60K Into It.(total)
    Same price you would pay for a brand new one, except she'll be bullit proof.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2005
  11. bjowett

    bjowett

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    This will be tight... A couple years back I looked at installing a Hino J08C-TI 7.9L engine into a variety of Land Cruisers... the thing was just tooooooo damn big and heavy. The 6B is a little smaller, and anything can be made to work... go for it! Post pics...

    If for some reason you decide it is not going to work, you may also consider a Hino W04C-TI. It is only a 4 cylinder 3.9L, but it can give close to the power you are looking for and is much much smaller.
     
  12. Project FJ80

    Project FJ80

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    I know it can be done,
    Ive seen and read about it being done on the fj55.
    Dont know why I would have so much more problems doing it to an 80.
    Over all, I think the Cummings will be smoother, have more than enough power on tap, and I can rebuild it myself if anything goes wrong. or I can fix it on the trail easyer than a gas. Plus getting parts wont be hard, and probably just as expensive as toyota diesel parts.
    http://cruisers.shoumatoffmedia.com/
    Take a look here and lemme know what you think?
    -Ron
     
  13. Project FJ80

    Project FJ80

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    Alright well,
    Ya'al took to long to answer... so I went to look at the engine, Looks good, sounds better, and... its really not that loud, at least to what im used to. I think my tires are louder.
    It has 1 cracked drivers side mount, but thats only 85 bucks to fix.. It will need a new oil pan, but the oil is good. only has 100K miles on her. I get everything but the air to air cooler, (which is bent and he says someone else already bought it... hmm)
    But it is intercooled.
    So, Here begins my Cummins engine swapp
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2005
  14. bjowett

    bjowett

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    Nice... do it do it!
     
  15. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

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    The early Cummins trucks (I have one) came with a "modified" 727. The bell housing is way different than the gas motor 727's. The "modified" 727 used clutch packs similar to ythe ones found in 426 Hemi 727's.

    D-
     
  16. VETTE60

    VETTE60

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    i would like to see you get 28mpg....... i had a 97 12valve and got the best mpg's at 20 with a stick, i say no way....but if you think you can, please tell me how. i would love to know how you do it, that would be awesome.
     
  17. Project FJ80

    Project FJ80

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    Well, As long as you can keep the rpms at around 1800, and your foot off the fuel, you should beable to get 22-24mpg easy, I most likely wont evey see more than 80mph. If i can get ahold of a used allison 1000, a 5 speed with a .62 for overdrive, I think I can obtain up to 28mpg.
    But wont really kow that untill I try it out. Ive herd of diesels obtaining 40+ MPG, Just depends on everything.
     
  18. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

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    VW NA-diesel rabbit and the Jetta TDI....



    You are going to have a 6000#-plus brick, rolling on 38's....



    22MPG......stop talking and Git-r-Done. ;)





    Good luck!
     
  19. tucker74

    tucker74 Moderator

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    I'd love to see 22MPG in my 80 ... keep us posted!

    Tucker
     
  20. Project FJ80

    Project FJ80

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    I just came across an Allison 545 auto tranny for the cummins.
    I have decided it will be between this, or the new allison 1000 from the chevy. They do make it in an SAE #3 configuration, which will bolt right up to the cummins. The only difference is that it would be computer controlled, and Id have to find somewhere to put the computer to keep it from getting wet. Also, I dont know what would happen if the tranny was submerged, Would it be ok? or would the electronics get wet inside?
    So between these two transmissions, I already have the 545, but can I bolt up a transfer case to it?
    If so, does anyone kow what kind???
    Or should I cut my losses and go with the Allison 1000 with the computer attached?
    Thanks
    -Ron