CSC Club/Group adjustments? (2 Viewers)

[Saddletramp]

All ideas are welcome, Ken made several good points about other avenues and I spent about three hours this morning looking in to them. I’m not sure the objective of this club is to attract everyone but there are clearly some attractive things/people in some of the places I ventured. Most of us feel @Funner is right about those things that CSC has prided itself on since our beginning. Ours is a Toyota club, we don’t exclude non-Toyota people from joining us on a run but they cannot be members.
Volunteering by the club needs to increase, some individuals are very active in SAR, Tonto Forest work, the club needs to participate/lead in more clean up efforts. CSC is adopting two trails in alliance with TRAL and has committed to drive more action rather than just talk. The club needs new and existing people to lead more runs, family related activities and more fun in general.

We have added some of these ideas to our upcoming meeting and should be ready to discuss in February’s monthly meetings. We now have representatives from Southern Arizona and Northern Arizona to assist in getting these ideas and messages to geographically dispersed members within the state.

Keep the ideas coming.

 

[OffRoad Rage]

I was going to write something more profound but I'll keep it succinct instead. There is a tool for every job. Some tools are better for some users, someone else might use a different tool. As long as it gets the job done effectively that is the mission. Over 500 members didn't find their way to CSC and Mud by accident.

I'm a big proponent of supplementing rather than substituting for an already effective process.

If you don't know your history, your are doomed to repeat it (CSC vs. AZLCA).

P.S.- There are still people that prefer to use their keyboard instead of a phone. (read-some can still type 40 wpm vs. texting 40 wph)

 

[Living in the Past]

Think this thread has gone from would it be better to use something other than Mud to one how another platform could help the club grow. So the club grows to a point that every run has a hundred vehicles is that what members want? Is bigger always better? The Casner Mountain run has become popular to a point about as many that don't do the run come up to camp. No area that we've camp at along the rim could support many more people. I rarely go on that many runs so my opinion probably doesn't matter. But the idea of having a long delay on a run while a hundred vehicles make their way to every obstacle doesn't sound like much fun.

 

[Otter]

Think this thread has gone from would it be better to use something other than Mud to one how another platform could help the club grow. So the club grows to a point that every run has a hundred vehicles is that what members want? Is bigger always better? The Casner Mountain run has become popular to a point about as many that don't do the run come up to camp. No area that we've camp at along the rim could support many more people. I rarely go on that many runs so my option probably doesn't matter. But the idea of having a long delay on a run while a hundred vehicles make their way to every obstacle doesn't sound like much fun.

I agree with not enjoying runs with too many vehicles. It makes for long days and finding room for camping is problematic. That being said, we have over 500 members now. How many of those actually show up for runs? It's almost always the same 10 trucks for whatever reason. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but usually the same folks. I can't think of a single instance, other than the actual Casner trail run, where we've had to reject folks from coming. Typically, a third of people drop out.

 

[Living in the Past]

I agree with not enjoying runs with too many vehicles. It makes for long days and finding room for camping is problematic. That being said, we have over 500 members now. How many of those actually show up for runs? It's almost always the same 10 trucks for whatever reason. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but usually the same folks. I can't think of a single instance, other than the actual Casner trail run, where we've had to reject folks from coming. Typically, a third of people drop out.

Think the 500 is a very misleading number. Think many are not LC owners anymore and not even on Mud period. I agree about the same people almost ever time. If I ever got off my a$$ and got my wife's 4Runner lifted that may change. Most runs I go on are in the northern half of the state where my two registered LC are. Plus most runs are in the East valley. That adds quite a bit of travel which is mainly freeway thru town. Went to Tucson this week and even thought used the last section of the 202 it was still a mess. I always wondered why they didn't end a few miles west and have it meet up with the 101. Now that I've driven at 4:00 coming back I see I was right. Getting onto the 10 and then on to the 101 took 30 minutes. It"s stupid mistakes like this is why I hate driving in the Phoenix area and avoid it when possible.

 

[Otter]

Think the 500 is a very misleading number. Think many are not LC owners anymore and not even on Mud period.

I agree these are not 'active' members and just gives a general representation of the current member number recently assigned. Given the length of time CSC has operated, people are going to disappear, move away, etc.

 

[OffRoad Rage]

It wasn't meant to be presented as 500 "active" members. However, we have always been on Mud, and we "over time" have attracted over 500 members (not to mention how many haven't officially joined) using this platform. It's a measure of member/non-member traffic over time.

Same said for TLCA (where I've seen member numbers in the upper 20K's) but that isn't their "active" membership. They truly evolved over the 25 years I've been a member (all volunteer efforts in the early days). The went from paper copies of Toyota Trails with the mail-in membership form in the back, to their web sites that currently allow you to manage membership on line. They even link to Mud for their discussion forums TLCA Discussion Forums.

 

[Saddletramp]

Periodically I check mud names to see when they were last on mud. Might surprise people how many still post. I also know some people just join to get the shirt and chime in on the site. Estimating active as those that actually come to a meeting our out on a run in a year the number is between 100-150. The number is more than double that if you just went by have they posted on mud int the last year.

I don’t think the expectation should be a lifetime of activity, life does happen over the years but we have a lot of people who move out of state that still chime in from time to time or stop in if they are in town. The welcome mat is always out.

Group size for actual wheeling gets tough beyond 15 trucks, makes for a long day but we still have never turned people away. The more difficult the trail the smaller the group should be in my opinion. By the way John @Living in the Past are you ready for Red Creek again?

 

[Somebodyelse5]

Periodically I check mud names to see when they were last on mud. Might surprise people how many still post. I also know some people just join to get the shirt and chime in on the site. Estimating active as those that actually come to a meeting our out on a run in a year the number is between 100-150. The number is more than double that if you just went by have they posted on mud int the last year.

I don’t think the expectation should be a lifetime of activity, life does happen over the years but we have a lot of people who move out of state that still chime in from time to time or stop in if they are in town. The welcome mat is always out.

Group size for actual wheeling gets tough beyond 15 trucks, makes for a long day but we still have never turned people away. The more difficult the trail the smaller the group should be in my opinion. By the way John @Living in the Past are you ready for Red Creek again?

I've notice a lot of folks will join up simply because they like that buy/sell thread so much (and plus, the swag is cool too). I think it's pretty sweet. and eventually... maybe...just maybe... we can get @CruiseLanderAZ to join up.

 

[Ken in AZ]

A lot of good points in this comment. Oddly, the only club you mentioned above that I have ever heard of is the TLCA. I was part of some other clubs, but I found Mud and CSC to be more in line with my personality, morals, ethics, off-road interests than any other. I know there is a dedicated group that does a lot of work with Tonto forest (RIP KP). As far of the rest of it goes, I don’t give a rip about FB or IG, others do. There is no limit on any member starting threads about supporting initiatives, post up and see if there is interest.

ASA4WDC is the Arizona State Association of 4 Wheel Drive Clubs. United is the United Four Wheel Drive Associations. Clubs the participant in the actual sport are all members. That’s their values they are fighting for our rights, even yours. Mesa 4 Wheelers and Casa Grande 4 Wheelers and Tucson Rough Riders are 3 of the largest and oldest 4 wheel drive clubs in Arizona, well over 50 years. AZGFD is the Arizona Game and Fish Department. Big world brother and the club has a ton of opportunities to actual do something beyond maybe a monthly trail ride or expecting every other club carry the water.

 

[Living in the Past]

By the way John @Living in the Past are you ready for Red Creek again?

Ouch


But in my defense that was the first time I had driven that bone stock 99 4Runner on dirt after owning it for a only a few weeks. I also asked a few times in the thread before hand about by passes which I was assured there was. On the pre run up the Verde Valley had no problem in our 04 4Runner that sits lower and still has running boards. While very few miles driven off road I have logged many miles on it. That said without a lift would not take that 4Runner on Red Creek.

All that said there were a few other vehicles not really set up for Red Creek besides mine which highlighted what I was saying about slow going on some trails with too many vehicles especially when they are no equipped for the trail. Even after I parked the 4Runner and rode with Murf the group only made it a little further and headed back after lunch.

 

[medtro]

Ouch


But in my defense that was the first time I had driven that bone stock 99 4Runner on dirt after owning it for a only a few weeks. I also asked a few times in the thread before hand about by passes which I was assured there was. On the pre run up the Verde Valley had no problem in our 04 4Runner that sits lower and still has running boards. While very few miles driven off road I have logged many miles on it. That said without a lift would not take that 4Runner on Red Creek.

All that said there were a few other vehicles not really set up for Red Creek besides mine which highlighted what I was saying about slow going on some trails with too many vehicles especially when they are no equipped for the trail. Even after I parked the 4Runner and rode with Murf the group only made it a little further and headed back after lunch.

Did you join CSC on the same day?

 

[Living in the Past]

Did you join CSC on the same day?

Why yes I did. I also remember a question about paying for a hub socket which I paid a little less than original price. Still sure I had paid but would have paid full amount again and not cared. Steve @Saddletramp let me use his compressor to air up after. Had Superflow MV50 but it was at the cabin and the second one I ordered hadn't show up yet. Remember Phil and at least one other person were camping at the cabin close to the start of Red Creek. From the cabin back to pavement was in the dark and plenty of dust at the speeds the small group I was in. Was this a test? Did I pass?

 

[Otter]

... the club has a ton of opportunities to actual do something beyond maybe a monthly trail ride or expecting every other club carry the water.

Nothing for nothing, but this comes off pretty accusatory.

I joined the club to hang out with other Landcruiser owners and participate in the occasional ROTM. I've been a member since 2011. It's always been pretty informal. There are avenues for anyone who wants to be more active in the outdoor community, TRAL is one example, and there's plenty of crossover with CSC and TRAL.

I'm not one to judge anyone on their level of participation.

 

[medtro]

Why yes I did. I also remember a question about paying for a hub socket which I paid a little less than original price. Still sure I had paid but would have paid full amount again and not cared. Steve @Saddletramp let me use his compressor to air up after. Had Superflow MV50 but it was at the cabin and the second one I ordered hadn't show up yet. Remember Phil and at least one other person were camping at the cabin close to the start of Red Creek. From the cabin back to pavement was in the dark and plenty of dust at the speeds the small group I was in. Was this a test? Did I pass?

It was not a test. I remember @murf introduced you to me at the parking lot, you paid and wanted to pay more, but I wasn't sure if it was the same run.

 

[DSRTRDR]

Just out of curiosity, is there a succession plan in place if you drive off a cliff, retire, have health issue or run away with some crazy stripper?

a totally fair question . . . we're all gonna die . . .

 

[DSRTRDR]

I was going to write something more profound but I'll keep it succinct instead. There is a tool for every job. Some tools are better for some users, someone else might use a different tool. As long as it gets the job done effectively that is the mission. Over 500 members didn't find their way to CSC and Mud by accident.

I'm a big proponent of supplementing rather than substituting for an already effective process.

If you don't know your history, your are doomed to repeat it (CSC vs. AZLCA).

P.S.- There are still people that prefer to use their keyboard instead of a phone. (read-some can still type 40 wpm vs. texting 40 wph)

and some of us still use the two-finger picking method

 

[Stepmurr]

T

and some of us still use the two-finger picking method

Two nostrils?

 

[DSRTRDR]

Two nostrils?

years ago my little brother managed to stick into his nostrils two lead balls -(from some ball bearings my grandfather had disassembled back in the day, and we used to play with the balls all the time in his shop; no idea what rode my brother to stick them up his nose that day )- they had to take him to the emergency room to get them out again

that was more than 50 years ago

 

[-Spike-]

There are avenues for anyone who wants to be more active in the outdoor community, TRAL is one example, and there's plenty of crossover with CSC and TRAL.

TRAL is an OHV organization, we encourage all vehicle makes and even types (two wheels, ATV's, SxS, etc). We have over 400 members, a good percentage of which are rarely seen, like CSC. Still, 80 series trucks alone often outnumber all other types combined on a given run. Some of that is people joining TRAL and asking what to buy, but a lot of it is CSC members, so yeah, there's quite a few CSC folks active in keeping our trails open in the Tonto National Forest.