CSC Chat (2 Viewers)

[murf]

Somewhere to discuss all the loose ends, topics, news, who is doing what, etc? Instead of hunting down (or highjacking?) a somewhat related thread for a random-ish thought, idea, or comment.

 

[medtro]

Sticky?

 

[murf]

I got the idea from a couple other "Clubhouses" and seem to be used frequently

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/since-we-need-one-the-club-chat-thread.232475/

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/cool-cars-and-clc-chat.158447/

If not, then it will take care of itself and dissapear!

 

[murf]

forwarded from the guys at AZTLCA (thanks Bob!)

M 4W Members & Guests,

Looks like someone has a grudge against the OHV community. The Forest Service has been busy digging up spiked rebar from forest roads around Happy Jack Lodge (Read their write up below and view attached photos).

TIRE DESTROYERS AND PICTURES

FYI… On the Mogollon Rim on 7-11, the CNF LEO received 2 reports of rebar shaped into punji sticks and placed on or near forest roads. The rebar is responsible for damaging 8 tires today. The rebar has been reported in two locations about 3 miles apart near Happy Jack Lodge. He recovered 5 of the punji stick style pieces of rebar from an OHV track near FR 702. Undoubtedly, the rebar has been purposed to puncture tires. The end of the rebar has been flattened and sharpened to a point and the exposed point has been painted to blend in with the road surface. The objects pose serious risks to walkers and animals as well.

So far it seems that the MO is for the rebar to be placed in areas frequented by OHV’s at a choke point where there is a tight lane of travel.

 

[murf]

more from the email:

I received the following from Mike from the Mesa 4 Wheelers.

This is very reminiscent of what was being done to the 4 wheelers about a decade ago. The people that do this have no feeling for or human life and do not feel that they will ever be punished for what they do.

Thanks for sending this to me.

Please be vigilant when out wheeling in remote areas. If you come across some of these or anything like it, take pictures and gps locations then make sure you contact the local authorities. This would include the forest service ranger, Game and Fish Department - Law Enforcement Division and the local sheriffs department.

The pictures represent the rebar that was found in the ground, which would be very difficult to see.

Thanks again Mike.

Rebecca

 

[a.mus.ed]

Reminds me of something I read somewhere else recently - Someone had strung piano wire between two trees on a popular bike path, left a few other booby traps as well.

 

[fumann]

Murf,
That is just sinister! Now I'll have to keep my eyes open for spikes.
Thanks for posting.
-Trent

 

[Azca]

While I disagree with what they are doing, I tend to agree with the why. I do not have a problem with the recreational use of trails, or better said maintained trails. My problem rests, and I feel most if not all MUD members would agree, that the use of ANY vehicle off established trails or people creating trails is a huge problem now.

There is nothing more infuriating than hiking through the woods, sometimes miles from a road, and see or hear ATVs running around through the woods. It is almost impossible to gather enough information to be able to prosecute them and these people, pardon my french, are screwing up the woods and/or the experience of being alone outdoors.

I love the outdoors, I love wheeling, they can and do coexist well. But these jack ___ s running around where ever they want, when ever they want to needs to stop.

 

[Living in the Past]

Since this is in my backyard when I'm able to be there (which just isn't happening this summer) I am very interested in this. Been award of this since last week. Watching the media and some sites this probably didn't happen on a legal trail but rather some sort of side area where quads go off and do cookies and such which is not legal. I was concerned if this was the case or if I had to start watching for these on legal trails. One article stated the Forest service LEO was asking why they were riding there. Since the group had at least six tires punctured he may not have ticketed them. The OHV sites painted a different picture that they were simply traveling on a legal trail that spikes had been planted. Another site had someone suggest it could be a rancher who runs cattle in the area. If you know the area there are berms made by bulldozers to create a water tanks. The berms are very popular for quads. Could have possibly been preventing cattle from getting to water. I had encounters with ranch who act like it's private property and not public that they just have grazing rights. When I'm able to get up I hope to find out exactly where this was. Happy Jack is a huge area. While I am against doing anything like this I do blame the quad riders for most the road closures. They ride in packs and create new trails all the time. Next time a group comes along they have to follow down the newly created trail. Before long it's hard to tell new from old. With so many budget cuts to the forest service over the last decade almost all goes into fighting fires and little into fire prevention and law enforcement so chances are getting caught are slim. In the end people who follow the rules keep having fewer and fewer places to travel off road.

 

[BrotherRob]

Just wait until a hiker puts one of those through his boot. Undoubtedly, they with blame the OHV crowd.

 

[medtro]

Just wait until a hiker puts one of those through his boot. Undoubtedly, they with blame the OHV crowd.

If they followed the online instructions correctly, then those are safe for boots. I will try to find the link later.

 

[BrotherRob]

While I disagree with what they are doing, I tend to agree with the why. I do not have a problem with the recreational use of trails, or better said maintained trails. My problem rests, and I feel most if not all MUD members would agree, that the use of ANY vehicle off established trails or people creating trails is a huge problem now.

There is nothing more infuriating than hiking through the woods, sometimes miles from a road, and see or hear ATVs running around through the woods. It is almost impossible to gather enough information to be able to prosecute them and these people, pardon my french, are screwing up the woods and/or the experience of being alone outdoors.

I love the outdoors, I love wheeling, they can and do coexist well. But these jack ___ s running around where ever they want, when ever they want to needs to stop.

Sorry, I disagree.
Per the prior post, these were found on forest roads, ie legal trails. Regardless where they were placed, these things can cause serious injury or even fatalities. If they catch these jack offs they should throw the book at them. There are a multitude of ways to encourage better behavior that don't involve the threat of physical harm.

 

[BrotherRob]

If they followed the online instructions correctly, then those are safe for boots. I will try to find the link later.

Some boots maybe, but they are certainly capable of puncturing many types of footwear. That doesn't include the potential for lower leg injuries if steps in the wrong place or falls on them.

 

[medtro]

This is what I read today:

An angle-cut metal rod driven into the road’s wheel rut will puncture tires while not harming people. The 1/2 inch diameter rod, protruding only about three inches, is too blunt to penetrate a shoe sole under a person’s weight, but sharp enough to puncture the tire of a heavy vehicle.

Here is the link (See Chapter 4).

 

[murf]

Still a chikensh*t way of addressing the issue imo

 

[BrotherRob]

So they claim. Anyone who believes that a spike buried in the ground can't harm people or wildlife is delusional.

 

[BrotherRob]

"Monkeywrenching is nonviolent

Monkeywrenching is nonviolent resistance to the destruction of natural diversity and wilderness. It is never directed against human beings or other forms of life. It is aimed at inanimate machines and tools that are destroying life. Care is always taken to minimize any possible threat to people, including the monkeywrenchers themselves."




These guys are smoking all the good sh!t.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Thanks Murf for posting and to Bob for the info.

It very sad to see this kind of behavior and on public forest to top all off.

This is what I read today:

Here is the link (See Chapter 4).

Where do ^these^ DB's have there meetings at

 

[Living in the Past]

Sorry, I disagree.
Per the prior post, these were found on forest roads, ie legal trails.

There are a multitude of ways to encourage better behavior that don't involve the threat of physical harm.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/arizona/2014/07/16/12news-spike-traps/12756943/ Doesn't sound like a legal trail to me. Just because there is a trail doesn't mean it's legal. This is a person it happened to not a second hand account. Clearly admitted they were off the legal trail. So they knew what they were doing. While any horse or wild animal as well as a hiker could have stepped on these they were clearly targeting OHV riders who refuse to stay on the legal trails.

As for multitude of ways to encourage better behavior none of them are working in the Happy Jack area. Just to bad it things like this happen before those who refuse to follow the rules think twice about driving off the legal trails. This month is forty years I've been driving a LC in Coconino National Forest. Very few wildcat roads were being created back then it's wasn't until the quads showed up that the point and go trails really started showing up. Because of the width of the tracks it's easy to know which vehicles made them. While I don't condone this it doesn't change the fact that those who refused to stay on legal trails have caused my freedoms to be restricted.

 

[BrotherRob]

From the original communication:
"Looks like someone has a grudge against the OHV community. The Forest Service has been busy digging up spiked rebar from forest roads around Happy Jack Lodge."

According to the message, some were found in legal roads.

From the article,
In a statement, Mogollon Rim District Ranger Linda Wadleigh said, "The objects pose a serious threat to everyone, and that doesn't just mean people recreating on a motorcycle or OHV [off-highway vehicle], it includes people walking, hiking and even wildlife. We are taking this very seriously and asking the public to keep an eye out and report suspicious activity in the area."