Cryogenic Ring and Pinion Treatment (1 Viewer)

[Road Apple]

Moving to 5.29’s and have been reading up on cryotherapy to increase durability. The latest thread I could find on cryo treatment is from 2013. Seems it was used a lot in the mid-2000’s for the 40 series.

Thoughts on cryo treatment of R&P or other parts such as bearings and axles? It seems cryo doesn’t help much for 4340 front axles, but might be a good treatment for the stock rear axle. Anyone using cryo these days? Thoughts?

 

[baldilocks]

This should be good.....

 

[Malleus]

Just popped a bucket myself...

 

[Road Apple]

Myself, Mrs. CDan and CDan all had our gears cryo'ed before installation.

This quote from @Onur in 2013.

Onur, what are your impressions after running cryo’d gears?

@jcardona1 ... did you end up using cryo for your gears? What’s your opinion?

 

[OGBeno]

This quote from @Onur in 2013.

Onur, what are your impressions after running cryo’d gears?

@jcardona1 ... did you end up using cryo for your gears? What’s your opinion?

I haven’t driven my 80 in 7 years. It was recycled in 2014.

I never broke them, if that’s what you are asking.

 

[Road Apple]

I haven’t driven my 80 in 7 years. It was recycled in 2014.

I never broke them, if that’s what you are asking.

Guess I’m asking what you’ve seen or heard regarding cryo over the years? What insights can you pass along? What are your recommendations for use of the treatment? Is it a worthwhile investment?

 

[Shipwreck]

I work in bio tech and had access to a cryo freezer during the cryo craze in early 2000's. I threw my r&p and axles from my FJ40 in for a day or two just for grins. I never broke them, but a few years later I broke the crankshaft on the 2F.
My takeaway is that if you are going to cryo the ring gears you better drop the entire 1FZ block in the cryo bath otherwise you're asking for trouble.

 

[jcardona1]

This quote from @Onur in 2013.

Onur, what are your impressions after running cryo’d gears?

@jcardona1 ... did you end up using cryo for your gears? What’s your opinion?

I got the R&P gears cryo'd by these guys. It was about $100 for both sets at the time. No noticeable difference, no issues. The front gears were set by Zuk. The rear was done by a local shop.

Performance Cryogenics

 

[Road Apple]

My takeaway is that if you are going to cryo the ring gears you better drop the entire 1FZ block in the cryo bath otherwise you're asking for trouble.

Right...cryo the gears, then the next weakest link breaks. I guess it comes down to choosing where you want the weakest link to be located? Sounds like a topic for another thread.

 

[Road Apple]

I got the R&P gears cryo'd by these guys. It was about $100 for both sets at the time. No noticeable difference, no issues. The front gears were set by Zuk. The rear was done by a local shop.

Performance Cryogenics

The setup and specifications of the install are pretty darn important. I’ve heard good things about Zuk....in the Sacramento area? If so, too far for me to drive home during break-in. I believe I have a good shop in San Jose...MS Auto Gears. Supposedly Custom Cruisers uses them. I’d take the truck to Valley Hybrids if it was closer. Guess I could have AAA give me a ride home? Lol

 

[OGBeno]

Guess I’m asking what you’ve seen or heard regarding cryo over the years? What insights can you pass along? What are your recommendations for use of the treatment? Is it a worthwhile investment?

I'd say the investment was worth it. I trust Robbie when he set up my gears years ago and he made a compelling argument for it, based on the "way" I used to drive (read: abuse) my 80.

 

[jcardona1]

The setup and specifications of the install are pretty darn important. I’ve heard good things about Zuk....in the Sacramento area? If so, too far for me to drive home during break-in. I believe I have a good shop in San Jose...MS Auto Gears. Supposedly Custom Cruisers uses them. I’d take the truck to Valley Hybrids if it was closer. Guess I could have AAA give me a ride home? Lol

No, Zuk is in AZ so it involved shipping to and from and adds quite a bit to the cost. But I wanted to make sure the front was done right to avoid any issues.

Toyota Gear Install Eaton

ZUK shares many close-up good pics of Toyota gear installs

gearinstalls.com

 

[-Spike-]

Cryo'ed my (latest set of) gears and bearings on Zuk's recommendation and my own research. Haven't broken them yet.

The most compelling argument I found was that 'a lot' of race engine builders cryo everything. At big costs. I figured they did the research, and had a lot more skin in the game than I ever would.

 

[scottryana]

I am going to WPC and Cryo my next set of gears. What the hell, it is only money. lol

 

[Kernal]

There was a thread maybe ?8 years ago (can't find it) where someone who had his gears cryo'd (incorrectly) ended up with the teeth fracturing like glass. Apparently the company doing the treatment didn't follow the correct protocol.

Seems like it's a three step process, heat up, cool way down, heat back up again??

 

[Three oaks 80]

This is the first I have heard of cryogenic metrology, and I am not a metrologist, but it seems this treatment would only be required for certain type of alloys of steel? Wouldn't most of the martensite be formed during the first quench? You can just quench metal that has been at room temperature for twenty years would you not have to anneal metal before the cryogenic treatment?

If you embrittle gear teeth too much they won't bend but crack. I know tooth bending sounds counter, but so it suddenly shearing a tooth because you over hardened the surface. So isn't case hardening normal and desirable? You want austenite underneath to absorb energy.

The website claims "Eliminates nearly all residual stress" but that is typical of annealing not quenching?

I guess my real question is this, how does this not lead to over hardening and creating a brittle gear?

I would be curious to learn more.

 

[joez]

Mine are heat treated and cryo'd. It's been 7+ years, with most of those on 40's. They havent broken, yet

 

[60wag]

Here is a good article describing what the cryo process does to the metal. Interesting that it is not a surface treatment but something that affects the full thickness of the material.

Cryogenic Treatment of Gears | Gear Solutions Magazine Your Resource to the Gear Industry

gearsolutions.com

 

[Road Apple]

Thank you for posting the article @60wag. Good info !!

“Austenite (a soft form of iron) is a solid solution of carbon and iron that is formed during the quenching phase of metal production. Austenite is weak and undesirable because it contains few molecular interfaces to help hold the metal together.

When metal is cryogenically treated, the austenite structure is transformed slowly into a highly organized grain structure called martensite, a body-centered tetragonal crystal structure. Martensite is a finer and harder material that brings high wear resistance that is very desirable in carbon steels. There may be as much as 40 percent residual austenite in heat-treat ferrous metals. That percentage can be lowered to as little as 1 percent in some cases.”

 

[Road Apple]

“The result is a much-improved part or tool with no cracking, warping, or any other cryogenically imposed defect. Improvement in durability is around 100 percent. The typical increase in strength is 30-50 percent. Another advantage of cryo is the increase in efficiency to dissipate heat. Gears, engines, transmissions, and disc brakes run cooler.”

“Cryo processing increases abrasive wear resistance, raises the tensile strength, and decreases brittleness with only one permanent treatment.”

“Beware of those processors who are dipping and dunking parts into a barrel of liquid nitrogen. This will cause stress and fracturing to the part. It must be done gradually and precisely so the metal will be stronger and will not become brittle.”