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this is NOT new territory. MERVS and SARS (bird flu) were corona viruses. I've been to several meeting on this. time will tell if this one is significantly more virulent, but with all the info we are getting in the medical community, if you keep 6feet from someone coughing/ sneezing, you are not likely to catch it. I would not worry about someone in the next camp site over. we'll never know how different this one is because not nearly as many people were tested for the earlier versions. I don't mind many of the precautions now. but the media caused the panick and now the govt has to do more than before. that's what makes it seem different. state parks camping should not close. visitor centers, etc. are fine. that's my take.
It appears the National Park Service also is closing campgrounds. Mostly because they can't get the PPE for their staff to clean the facilities. Most I follow are making it clear the Parks are still open. But camping and indoor facilities (visitor centers, etc) are closed.
NMBound
SILVER Star
Agreed.
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NMBound
SILVER Star
I agree. Let's look at the data.
I guess you could make the bold assumption that mom and dad are going to do this, but then again that goes directly counter to what you've suggested about panic. Are people concerned or aren't they? I can't tell from what you've expressed. You seem to think both.
In any case this is a statistics problem. Some people will go out and take advantage of the situation. Many won't. They will stay home, and statistically, that matters a lot.
And that's the only rational argument anyone needs.
World-leading pandemic researcher do not think that this is an over-the-top measure to "flatten the curve".
These kinds of people will freak out no matter what, media or no media.
You said you understand the concept of "flattening the curve".
We know it will continue to spread. Nobody has suggested otherwise except for the POTUS.
Testing is to track the virus and better understand the variance in the data. More science and information; less feelings-based assumptions, please.
Not getting tested because you feel like you may be "marked" or ostracized by your friends is the antithesis of scientific practice and the definition of feelings-based decision making.
Well, based the current news, it appears that Trump is either onboard with reality, or telling us what we should hear even if he doesn't believe it. Today I heard the notion that sheltering-in-place will "stop" the spread. News media. Politicians. And a few others who should know better. Social distancing is not going to stop the spread, only slow it. Saying "stop" is irresponsible and only leads to unreasonable expectations. This is a lose-lose. Extending the crisis will wreck the economy even more than it has already. Shorten the crisis will overwhelm the medical community. Either way it sucks. Flattening the curve is a lousy best option.
As far as testing ... make the test worth something besides a data point and I will agree. Most people agree the test results are under representing reality, anyways. The only number that is close to reality is the number killed by the virus. In New Mexico, 98.8% of the folks that have been tested have tested negative. There is no value in that except to document the number of paranoid people out there. It was also a selfish act that wasted tests that we will need in future weeks when all hell breaks loose.
New Mexico is only 8 days into this journey. A journey that will last months. I suspect it will take another week or two to see if all these measures slow down the rate. Then the decision needs to be made how long we want to stretch this out.
I am a retired Nurse with 40 years experience in the medical field. My comments on the C virus are these.
In the medical field , we always plan for worst case situations. The care we give is driven by scientific data and experience with past medical emergencies.
The USA has placed its medical care on the back burner for too long. We have chronic shortages in medical staff. We should have paid people to go to nursing school and medical school. Yes , it should be free. That is how serious it is. We are the greatest country on the planet, but we have sub par medical care for our people. This country could easily afford these proactive steps. Only now, do we throw Trillions of dollars at this crisis. If we have this kind of money, ( were is this money coming from??) , we need to spend it up front, and be well prepared for a crisis like this. Medical R and D could cure cancers, defeat Diabetes, and other diseases that we seem okay to just tolerate. Spend the trillions up front.!!!
Only then, are we ready for the new disease, or mass emergencies.
So, when we have a new virus, which will continue to happen, we would be more prepared to deal with a new emergency.
I always worked in a "short staff situation" , for 40 years. If any one called in sick, we were in crisis mode, until they came back to work. Medicine should not be that way, in the USA. It effects patient care. Mistakes are made by over worked staff. Currently, the most important way to fight this virus, once someone is sick , is the medical staff. Without enough appropriate supplies, the staff will get sick. Try working is crisis mode for 24 hours straight , wrapped in PPE, following strict guidelines, over and over again..... They cannot care for your family, for very long, under these conditions.
The current C virus emergency will pass. How long, who knows, because it is a new strain of virus. In a year or two, we will have a vaccine for it, and the little viruses will develop a new strain and attack us again. Wouldn't it be good to throw a trillion dollars at R and D and get ahead of the viruses, instead of going back to status quo and binge watch some TV show? Nothing really changed after 9/11, so maybe this crisis will finally shake things up....
My advice, follow the simple guidelines, wash hands, clean house, stay away from other humans for a while, and get healthy, exercise.
If you want to go camping, go to BLM areas, dry camp. Avoid public campgrounds, for a while. New Mexico has large areas of open public lands. Only have to drive 1 hour.
I worked with a Doctor, in the 70's, who had a large picture of him shaking hands with Nixon. I was a young liberal hippie nurse. We razzed each other all the time, but when we had a patient whose heart had stopped beating and we working side by side to save their life, we worked together. WE were a team and we were happy to have each others' expertise.
This is a lose-lose situation now, because the USA is not prepared for a "blizzard". We should have our emergency recovery equipment, just as we have on our 4x4's.
There is 7 plus billion human beings on Earth , right now. That is not social distancing. Too many people, to little room. What can you do....?
Stay safe, follow a few simple rules, and you won't need to be personally worried about how many ventilators we have on hand. You do not want to be sick enough to need a ventilator to stay alive.
Hope I expressed my feelings well enough. I welcome your comments, good or bad. I don't get mad about other views, and try to be open minded about other ideas.
In the medical field , we always plan for worst case situations. The care we give is driven by scientific data and experience with past medical emergencies.
The USA has placed its medical care on the back burner for too long. We have chronic shortages in medical staff. We should have paid people to go to nursing school and medical school. Yes , it should be free. That is how serious it is. We are the greatest country on the planet, but we have sub par medical care for our people. This country could easily afford these proactive steps. Only now, do we throw Trillions of dollars at this crisis. If we have this kind of money, ( were is this money coming from??) , we need to spend it up front, and be well prepared for a crisis like this. Medical R and D could cure cancers, defeat Diabetes, and other diseases that we seem okay to just tolerate. Spend the trillions up front.!!!
Only then, are we ready for the new disease, or mass emergencies.
So, when we have a new virus, which will continue to happen, we would be more prepared to deal with a new emergency.
I always worked in a "short staff situation" , for 40 years. If any one called in sick, we were in crisis mode, until they came back to work. Medicine should not be that way, in the USA. It effects patient care. Mistakes are made by over worked staff. Currently, the most important way to fight this virus, once someone is sick , is the medical staff. Without enough appropriate supplies, the staff will get sick. Try working is crisis mode for 24 hours straight , wrapped in PPE, following strict guidelines, over and over again..... They cannot care for your family, for very long, under these conditions.
The current C virus emergency will pass. How long, who knows, because it is a new strain of virus. In a year or two, we will have a vaccine for it, and the little viruses will develop a new strain and attack us again. Wouldn't it be good to throw a trillion dollars at R and D and get ahead of the viruses, instead of going back to status quo and binge watch some TV show? Nothing really changed after 9/11, so maybe this crisis will finally shake things up....
My advice, follow the simple guidelines, wash hands, clean house, stay away from other humans for a while, and get healthy, exercise.
If you want to go camping, go to BLM areas, dry camp. Avoid public campgrounds, for a while. New Mexico has large areas of open public lands. Only have to drive 1 hour.
I worked with a Doctor, in the 70's, who had a large picture of him shaking hands with Nixon. I was a young liberal hippie nurse. We razzed each other all the time, but when we had a patient whose heart had stopped beating and we working side by side to save their life, we worked together. WE were a team and we were happy to have each others' expertise.
This is a lose-lose situation now, because the USA is not prepared for a "blizzard". We should have our emergency recovery equipment, just as we have on our 4x4's.
There is 7 plus billion human beings on Earth , right now. That is not social distancing. Too many people, to little room. What can you do....?
Stay safe, follow a few simple rules, and you won't need to be personally worried about how many ventilators we have on hand. You do not want to be sick enough to need a ventilator to stay alive.
Hope I expressed my feelings well enough. I welcome your comments, good or bad. I don't get mad about other views, and try to be open minded about other ideas.
NMBound
SILVER Star
Your personal agreement is not a requirement of scientific validity or data analysis, or your understanding of the process.
As a scientist, I really don't care what "most people" think. We have experts for a reason.
As a scientist (biologist) I disagree, and I do understand the process. Let's look at another fact. In New Mexico 98.9% of the test administered and reported as of today, have been negative. I will argue that most were wasted on people who were sure they had the virus, and lied to get it. These were selfish people that don't care if test are in limited supply, and they, or somebody else, might need that wasted test themselves in a few weeks when the spam hits.
Tests are in limited supply. That is a fact.
The First U.S. Company Has Announced an Upcoming Home COVID-19 Test
There is no treatment. The test only, ONLY, makes you a statistic. I get that you feel that is important. But, I will argue the test is irrelevant for treatment. It's only good for reporting to the relevant health agencies. Or because there is money to be had. I can accept testing those who are displaying symptoms, but the factual evidence you so desire shows that is not happening.
NMBound
SILVER Star
I was under the impression tests were only being given to those displaying the relevant symptoms, otherwise, that is a waste of resources.
Fortunately, countries like Italy have been able to ship supplies to the United States.
US Air Force Flew Half a Million Coronavirus Test Swabs From Italy to Tennessee
Similar missions to distribute COVID-19 test kits are expected in coming days.
www.defenseone.com
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Mauser
Supporting Vendor
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The only thing is that to me at least it seems like the experts don't know a whole lot either. At first we were told that this virus was not transferred from contact. I would rather hear the words I don't know than a made up story.
@abraly. Yes I do have a habit of talking out of my a$$ sometimes, but I do want you to know that I do appreciate you and those of you in the medical community for the work you are doing to help the sick and to help keep the healthy from being sick. I know I couldn't do your job.
@abraly. Yes I do have a habit of talking out of my a$$ sometimes, but I do want you to know that I do appreciate you and those of you in the medical community for the work you are doing to help the sick and to help keep the healthy from being sick. I know I couldn't do your job.
I bolded the words "global shortage" for a reason. We are not the only country needing this limited resource, and it's not right that they are going to waste. The shortage will only get worse as the numbers climb.
NMBound
SILVER Star
I get the confusion. The "experts" I speak about are the researchers on the cutting edge. The talking heads then go on television and the information becomes muddled.
To be fair, I am a research and development physicist working in Defense. My background is in medical physics, and I've spent a lot of time working with medical personnel. I do not work in a hospital.
alia176
SILVER Star
I have a friend who went through a drive thru C-19 testing just to make sure she didn't pick it up while vacationing in the Bahamas last week. She's not returning to work until she's cleared and her co-workers thanked her for her efforts.
Rather than start a new thread … BLM closing developed campgrounds and developed recreation sites in California. At least dispersed is still available.
More falling. California has closed dispersed camping on State Park lands, like Anza-Borrego SP. Enjoy it while you can.
Figured I'd put this message in this thread rather than the Utah one.
I emailed the head of the Santa Fe National Forest on if they were still planning on opening the gates to forest service roads in the Jemez and she responded this morning to me with the following:
Not at this time. Typically we don’t start to open gates after winter closure until mid April. This year will likely be different.
Thanks,
Melissa
I emailed the head of the Santa Fe National Forest on if they were still planning on opening the gates to forest service roads in the Jemez and she responded this morning to me with the following:
Not at this time. Typically we don’t start to open gates after winter closure until mid April. This year will likely be different.
Thanks,
Melissa
Forest Service campgrounds were closed 3/24/2020. I don't see that dispersed camping is prohibited, but it looks like group sizes are limited taking direction from respective states.
Hey guys. This thread has taken a detour. Any objection if I change the title to something more relevant, like "COVID-19 Public Land Closures?"
