Cold starting problems '91 FJ80.. overseas (1 Viewer)

[kubikrubika]

Hi folks! It’s been a while since I last posted on this forum.... still drive the same ’91 FJ80, but no longer do it on the US roads. Due to family reasons had to move back to my home country – Ukraine. And I took my rig with me. Have been driving it here ever since – for about 6 years. It has been an awesome vehicle for the local conditions.

Couple of years ago I removed EGR and installed an LPG thingy to cut down on fuel costs. Had been running like a champ until recently. Well, it still drives great, but only if I am able to start it. J

I am having hard time starting it cold, especially since temps dropped to low to mid 20s (F) I have to crank it for 17-25 uninterrupted seconds before it starts. If I break cranking short, i.e. before it catches, I have to start the entire cycle all over. Sometime it appears to catch , but if I release the key, it dies. Once started, it runs great, though. Also, no problem starting it when it is hot/warm. It starts on gasoline, as the LPG kicks in only after it reaches operational temperature.

Last summer I had a competent mechanic do valves seal replacement and fine-tune the ignition timing. Also replaced plugs, dizzy cap, spark plugs and alternator belt. They also checked and removed the cold start injector as it was shot. Ever since that valve job and CSI removal, it has had some minor issues with cold starting even when it was in 70s and 80s – it would never start with only one crank, always had to do 2, sometimes even 3 1-3 second cranks, but it was acceptable. Then, the colder weather arrived and the troubles began.

I took it to the same mechanic and he has investigated it pretty thoroughly. I also read through the old threads here. Ruled out fuel delivery and MAF. In the process replaced fuel pump with a new Denso unit, and put in new fluid temp sensor; also cleaned fuel filter. (will have to replace it later) . FPR checked out OK. There appears to be no air/vacuum leaks.

Now,.. electrical so far checked out ok, mostly... The CEL light comes on before I turn the ignition key, spark is there, distributor cap and coil are not melted (hello jonheld! ) Now, I have yet to replace the wires, but it appears not to be the culprit as the spark is there indeed and he tagged and seated wire boots many times to make sure the contact is there. I have new wires on the way from Amazon, though.

The only thing that may give an indication of possible electrical trouble is the fact that when the mechanic sprays ether (it is used here as a starting fluid) into the manifold, the engine does not run smooth for 10-15 seconds as I gather it is supposed to, but runs sputtering and then dies. Now, it might be because the ether is not the best chemical for this purpose, or …

Asking you guys for ideas . Another big question – can the absence of CSI have such a huge impact that the good old 3Fe has to be cranked uninterruptedly for at least 17 seconds before it catches. I mean, there are millions of other cars and trucks that start every time even on the coldest mornings. Hell, I had 91 Toyota Cressida (3 liter 6 inline engine) that would start every time after 2-3 seconds crank during cold winter mornings in Berkshire mountains when it was only around 0(F).

…would appreciate your input guys.

 

[Michael Hanson]

Hi, Check the timer switch on the thermostat housing with an ohm meter. Mike

 

[kubikrubika]

Do you mean the timer switch for the cold start injector? The CSI is gone. Does the switch still play a role or it also needs to be removed?

 

[jonheld]

Are you saying that you removed the CSI and are now having troubles with cold starts?

 

[jonheld]

I just re-read your original post.
You had no COLD STARTing issues when you had the COLD START injector.
Then your mechanic removed the COLD START injector and now your having trouble with COLD STARTs.

Hmmm...let me think about this for a while...

 

[kubikrubika]

Actually I had intermittent minor cold starting issues for several years before the CSI was removed. The issue was eventually traced to the faulty reverse fuel flow valve (located in the fuel pump). The fuel pressure would gradually drop once the engine was shut. At times, I would had to crank the engine for 2-4 seconds to get the fuel back into the line before the engine would catch. That's why the pump, although quite functional otherwise, was swapped for the new Denso unit.

But yeah, my question was also about the effect of the CSI removal on the cold start. It is a pricy part and it is expensive to ship it here from the US. So, before ordering it, I need to be certain that it is indeed the reason behind he cold start issues I am having.

 

[jonheld]

Ever since that valve job and CSI removal, it has had some minor issues with cold starting even when it was in 70s and 80s – it would never start with only one crank, always had to do 2, sometimes even 3 1-3 second cranks, but it was acceptable. Then, the colder weather arrived and the troubles began.

OK, I'm quoting your OP above. Help me out here, because I'm pretty good with reading comprehension.
You removed the CSI and now you have issues with cold starts. What do YOU think the issue could be?
In the 1991 FSM there is a handy troubleshooting flowchart. Under the "hard starting" section, the CSI is mentioned 3 times as something that should be checked.

 

[kubikrubika]

I understand your sarcasm, but my mechanic pointed out to me that the majority of cars and trucks here in Ukraine have no CSI . Still, they start just fine when the temps hover in 20s (F) They do normally develop cold start issues when temps dip below teens or go down to 0 F. Besides that, there are quite a few cruisers from Emirates and other rich Gulf countries here that have no cold start injector, but they start in cold weather just fine.

Thus, I asked this question, however silly it might seem to you. I need to rule out other possible causes before I commit a hefty amount to buying and shipping a cold start injector from the US (they do not have them in Emirates, where we normally get cruiser spare parts)

Also, the engine kinda sputters badly when injected with ether (equivalent of the effect that CSI has at the start) ann I thought that it may have something to do with the issue at hand.

 

[jonheld]

I can't help you with parts, but I'm certain you can pick up a used one from any 3FE engine from an FJ62 or FJ80/

 

[jonheld]

there are quite a few cruisers from Emirates and other rich Gulf countries here that have no cold start injector, but they start in cold weather just fine.

Are these 3FE equipped trucks or do they have different engines? The 1FZ-FE does not have a CSI.

 

[kubikrubika]

My truck is pretty unique in here. It looks like if there were any 3FEs, most of them are no longer driven or got their engines swapped for other types (there is a little cottage industry here for swapping engines in cruisers and nissans) But I know they have plenty other 80, 100, 120 and 200 series cruisers here.

 

[kubikrubika]

I have seen only 5 or 6 FJ60-62 over the past 5 years here and a few dozens of 80 series rigs (they are in great demand here due to their ruggedness) but they are mostly either from Emirates (they have rear barn doors) or are assembled from bits and pieces of other trucks - bodies, engines, suspension are from different years.

 

[jonheld]

I understand your sarcasm, but my mechanic pointed out to me that the majority of cars and trucks here in Ukraine have no CSI .

Do the majority of cars and trucks in the Ukraine have a 3FE engine?
Is your mechanic second guessing the design parameters from Toyota because other engines don't have a specific device? Are you kidding me with this?
We're just going to pull stuff off an engine because other engines don't have it?

 

[kubikrubika]

They had to pull it because, as they put it "it was shot". I also drove the rig for several month until cold weather set in with few problems, (I mean except those times when I had to crank the cold engine twice for 1-4 seconds for it to start). Even then, I could not tell for sure if those issues were due to the removed CSI or because of the faulty reverse fuel flow valve in the pump.

But I get it, you are saying - the problems I am having are entirety due to the lack of a cold start injector and I need to find one and install it for the problem to go away.

Thanks jonheld, I really appreciate your answers. Now I can take it to my mechanic and convince him that installing CSI is the way to go. Cheers mate - you are awesome!