Cloud of smoke from exhaust, help please. (1 Viewer)

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I have a 94 land cruiser that has burned a small amount of oil for a long time. More significantly were numerous oil leaks that was making a real mess on the ground and under the engine. Eventually I had the valve cover gaskets and seals, front seal, oil pan top and bottom seals replaced, timing seal, all o rings and seals, thermostat and seals, timing chain, front seal etc... replaced as well. Shortly after doing so it started to release smoke when accelerating after a coming to a complete stop after driving over 60 mph. A really significant plume of smoke (very large cloud) and some engine clatter and stumbling occurs as it happens. Noise and smoke stops quickly then accelerates and drives with no issues until the next time that I exceed 60 mph. It never blows smoke no matter how much I drive as long as I'm below 60 mph. I do have to add oil regularly, so there is oil being consumed. There is no issue with vehicle temperature, radiator fluid level, or leaking. If I never had to stop, I would never know there was any problem at all as it accelerates and runs great. I asked a Toyota technician and he thought it might be valve stem seals and the fact that when stopping the vacuum is high and might be sucking oil into the valves? Another person said it might be bad rings and bad valve seals. The vehicle has 325K miles on it and I plan to keep it forever. I have been told that a valve job could cost $4,000 and if rings need to be replaced thus rebuilding the engine could cost an additional $6,000. Not sire if these costs are reasonable, or what all I should be making sure is done/replaced with the rebuild. I shy away from replacing the engine with some other high mileage engine, thus I would appreciate comments on whether this problem is one that you have experienced, does the possible cause make sense, and are these estimated costs reasonable.
Thank You!
 
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Blue Smoke is oil.
Black smoke is fuel.
White smoke is coolant.

Blue smoke on start-up is valve seals/guides.
Blue smoke on acceleration is rings
Blue smoke on deceleration is valve seals/guides
Thank you for responding, is $4000 for valve seals/ guides reasonable and would this include any other work like rebuilding the head?
 
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Thank you for responding, is $4000 for valve seals/ guides reasonable and would this include any other work like rebuilding the head?
I don't know your location and it sometimes determines costs. Yes, it is within range of some folks paying a shop to do that. Make sure that whatever shop you use has done 80 series Land Cruisers before. There are lots of folks out there that claim they do.

Insist on Toyota OEM parts, gaskets, and hoses.
Replace ALL hoses they needs to touch.
Replace the fuel filter with OEM when they do the work.
Replace the PHH when this work is done.

There are lists of "what do I need to do when I do the Head Gasket on my truck?"

If you do the work yourself, you can get the head done for $400 to $600, then about another $1000 in parts. I usually estimate about 1.5X my part cost for labor so that would be another $2400 in labor for a total of $4000, so right in the ball park.

Just make damn sure you use a REPUTABLE shop. The good ones are always busy and have a waiting list.
 

flintknapper

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For $4,000 you can probably find a decent used engine and have it installed.

Leak down test and compression test will tell you the relative condition of your piston rings (assuming your valves still close fully).

I can virtually guarantee you....that you are losing oil down the valve stem guides because of hardened stem seals. IF your piston rings are still serviceable (most are) then having the head removed and rebuilt (along with new head gasket and head bolts) plus labor, you might be able to get out for around 3K. But typically there will be some 'while you are in there' things to attend to.

This is where shop labor begins to add up.
 
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From talking to a couple of high end engine rebuilders they suggested also replacing the valve stem guides (in addition to all above) on a high mileage 1FZFE (the FZJ engine) while the head is off. FWIW.
 
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For $4,000 you can probably find a decent used engine and have it installed.

Leak down test and compression test will tell you the relative condition of your piston rings (assuming your valves still close fully).

I can virtually guarantee you....that you are losing oil down the valve stem guides because of hardened stem seals. IF your piston rings are still serviceable (most are) then having the head removed and rebuilt (along with new head gasket and head bolts) plus labor, you might be able to get out for around 3K. But typically there will be some 'while you are in there' things to attend to.

This is where shop labor begins to add up.
Thanks for the feedback, all things seem to point to the valve seals as the first place to start. The shop that I plan to use mentioned something about pouring some type of fluid into the cylinders after the head was removed to see if the fluid leaked passed the rings as a means to test them and thus determine if they should also be replaced. Is this a routine practice to evaluate ring wear?
 
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From talking to a couple of high end engine rebuilders they suggested also replacing the valve stem guides (in addition to all above) on a high mileage 1FZFE (the FZJ engine) while the head is off. FWIW.
Thank you for the advice!
 
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Thanks for the feedback, all things seem to point to the valve seals as the first place to start. The shop that I plan to use mentioned something about pouring some type of fluid into the cylinders after the head was removed to see if the fluid leaked passed the rings as a means to test them and thus determine if they should also be replaced. Is this a routine practice to evaluate ring wear?
No.

There is a leakdown test done with a compression tester before it is ever torn apart.

There is also the dry and wet compression test. All those together help determine the condition of the rings.

Then, once it's apart, there is a visual check on the cylinders for scratching, scorching, marring, then the measurements to determine if a cylinder is worn beyond it's allowable limit in at least two axis in out-of round.

Many of the lower end on these are in good enough condition at 300K miles that they can still see the factory cross-hatching in the cylinder wall. These are NOT like a Chevy small-block that's worn out in 100K miles.
 

flintknapper

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No.

There is a leakdown test done with a compression tester before it is ever torn apart.

There is also the dry and wet compression test. All those together help determine the condition of the rings.

Then, once it's apart, there is a visual check on the cylinders for scratching, scorching, marring, then the measurements to determine if a cylinder is worn beyond it's allowable limit in at least two axis in out-of round.

Many of the lower end on these are in good enough condition at 300K miles that they can still see the factory cross-hatching in the cylinder wall. These are NOT like a Chevy small-block that's worn out in 100K miles.


^^^^

Exactly right. All of the above.


OP:
Any shop wanting to pour a liquid on top the pistons is trying to sell you a 'ring job'. Unless that liquid is the viscosity of engine oil...then of course it's going to eventually go past the rings.
 
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Thank you for the advice!
Hello Kernal, as strange as it may be, it proved to be the PCV Valve that was causing the problem. When I say this, it is amazing that a $10 part could cause so much smoke that the truck became invisible when it happened and it would only happen after driving over 55 mph, coming to a complete stop, then accelerating. I hope it never happens to you, but if it does check the PCV first. Thank You.
 
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For $4,000 you can probably find a decent used engine and have it installed.

Leak down test and compression test will tell you the relative condition of your piston rings (assuming your valves still close fully).

I can virtually guarantee you....that you are losing oil down the valve stem guides because of hardened stem seals. IF your piston rings are still serviceable (most are) then having the head removed and rebuilt (along with new head gasket and head bolts) plus labor, you might be able to get out for around 3K. But typically there will be some 'while you are in there' things to attend to.

This is where shop labor begins to add up.
Hello flintknapper, as strange as it may be, it proved to be the PCV Valve that was causing the problem. When I say this, it is amazing that a $10 part could cause so much smoke that the truck became invisible when it happened and it would only happen after driving over 55 mph, coming to a complete stop, then accelerating. I hope it never happens to you, but if it does check the PCV first. Thank You.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Blue Smoke is oil.
Black smoke is fuel.
White smoke is coolant.

Blue smoke on start-up is valve seals/guides.
Blue smoke on acceleration is rings
Blue smoke on deceleration is valve seals/guides
Hello BILT4ME, as strange as it may be, it proved to be the PCV Valve that was causing the problem. When I say this, it is amazing that a $10 part could cause so much smoke that the truck became invisible when it happened and it would only happen after driving over 55 mph, coming to a complete stop, then accelerating. I hope it never happens to you, but if it does check the PCV first. Thank You.
 
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Riverbend: How did you fix the problem; just a new PCV valve, or did you also clean out the oil baffle box, install a oil catch can, ??

Something I'd forgot ties in with this topic (FWIW). Years ago one of my 80's was consuming a lot of oil, pulled the PCV valve and it was too long. On top of that the oil baffle box in the top of the valve cover was sludged up so it didn't allow the oil mist to drain back into the engine quick enough which caused a pool of oil to sit there, directly underneath the PCV valve.

So the combination of a too long PCV valve and too much oil pooling in the baffle box (inside top of valve cover) caused the PCV valve to suck liquid oil directly into the intake.
 

flintknapper

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Oil Separator1.jpg
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