Clack-clack-clack? (1 Viewer)

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Here comes a kind of newbie question, but I ask it anyway. First laugh at me and then please answer my question:D
When I'm in 4WD and make a tight turn, the front wheels say clack-clack-clack! I know it has something to do with my shafts, but not precisely what. Can somebody enlighten me?
Thanx in @vance
 

brian

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yeap, drive line trying to lock up...birfs are the weak link, just something to keep in mind. drop it out of 4wd before trying agian, or don't turn as hard.
 
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birfs binding. dont turn that sharp or unlock.

clint


yeap, drive line trying to lock up...birfs are the weak link, just something to keep in mind. drop it out of 4wd before trying agian, or don't turn as hard.
Sorry, guys, but can you give me a more specific explanation? I mean, what precisely tries to lock up? And I assume that it is wear that causes this? Or is this normal? What do I have to replace?
 

brian

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with one axle(two wheels), when turning one wheel spins slower than the other.
same thing with two axles(four wheels), one set of wheels travels less distance than the other set.
when the hubs are locked and the tcase is in either 4wd, both axles are locked together. so now when turning hard on a hard surface, one set of wheels is trying to mover farther or faster than the other set, and can't....because they are locked to the slower, shorter traveling set. there is enough play to cover a little bit of binding but you take up that slop things start getting tight, given enough time, distance or power, things will break.
for this type of four wheel drive system(part time), it is normal. full time systems, like those on the 80series have what amounts to a limited slip in the tcase to avoid these issues.
 
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The "Birfs " are the fexible part of your front axle. They are located inside the steering knuckle. When you turn, these devices transmit the torque from your front axle to your wheels even while you are turning the steering wheel to its limit . While you are in 4WD and the front hubs are locked in and you turn sharply on a non slippery surface you will feel resistance in the drivetrain. This is why we only run our vehicles in 4WD on snowy and off road conditions. The sharper you turn the more resistance is created. While in 4WD and all the wheels are on the ground and turning, the inside wheels need to turn less than the outside wheels, because you are in 4WD, the front and rear diffs are essentialy locked while all the wheels are firmly on the ground. Try to avoid running in 4wd when you do not need to to avoid wearing out your Birfs prematurely . Also the sound of clicking birfs is clue that your Birfield joints may need replacing or serviced....
 

brian

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The "Birfs " are the fexible part of your front axle. They are located inside the steering knuckle. When you turn, these devices transmit the torque from your front axle to your wheels even while you are turning the steering wheel to its limit . While you are in 4WD and the front hubs are locked in and you turn sharply on a non slippery surface you will feel resistance in the drivetrain. This is why we only run our vehicles in 4WD on snowy and off road conditions. The sharper you turn the more resistance is created. While in 4WD and all the wheels are on the ground and turning, the inside wheels need to turn less than the outside wheels, because you are in 4WD, the front and rear diffs are essentialy locked while all the wheels are firmly on the ground. Try to avoid running in 4wd when you do not need to to avoid wearing out your Birfs prematurely . Also the sound of clicking birfs is clue that your Birfield joints may need replacing or serviced....
close, but not quite.
unless lincoln locked, the front and rear diffs will still allow the inner and outer wheels to travel different speeds, even in four wheel drive. turning sharply on a hard surface with a lincoln locked front, is a sure way to pop a birf....pretty easy even with a lunchbox locker too.

when turning sharply, the front axle travels a shorter distance than the rear axle, this is what the drive line does not like.
 
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So what you guys actually say, is that the angle of the birfs is too big for the power they have to transmit in 4WD? Okay, I get that. Thanx.
But listen, you both talk about 'locked axles' when in 4WD, and the fact that the inner and outer wheel turn at different speeds? The difference in speed is obvious, but unless you have locking diffs, your differential still works when in 4WD, so that can't be a factor in the clacking. And by the way, if this clacking is normal in tight turns, how can you make a tight turn in mud, than? Just not? :)
 
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close, but not quite.
unless lincoln locked, the front and rear diffs will still allow the inner and outer wheels to travel different speeds, even in four wheel drive. turning sharply on a hard surface with a lincoln locked front, is a sure way to pop a birf....pretty easy even with a lunchbox locker too.

when turning sharply, the front axle travels a shorter distance than the rear axle, this is what the drive line does not like.
Ok, I stand partialy corrected.
 

brian

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So what you guys actually say, is that the angle of the birfs is too big for the power they have to transmit in 4WD? Okay, I get that. Thanx.
But listen, you both talk about 'locked axles' when in 4WD, and the fact that the inner and outer wheel turn at different speeds? The difference in speed is obvious, but unless you have locking diffs, your differential still works when in 4WD, so that can't be a factor in the clacking. And by the way, if this clacking is normal in tight turns, how can you make a tight turn in mud, than? Just not? :)
no.
the bind comes from there being no center diff to make up for the front set of wheels trying to travel slower than the rear set of wheels.
 
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no.
the bind comes from there being no center diff to make up for the front set of wheels trying to travel slower than the rear set of wheels.
So you mean that a 60 (mine is 2H with H55F) actually has a kind of center diff 'lock' when in 4WD?
 
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lets get back to the REAL question.. The "clack" you say you heard... does it happen while the truck is in 4 wheel drive or 2 wheel drive or both?
by the way.. Brian.. the rear wheels take the shorter path not the front.

and no fj 60's do not have "center" diff locks they have 2 wheel drive and 4 wheel drive.
 
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The clicking you hear are worn birfields. That doesn't mean they are at death's door, they just click. Mine started doing this and when I removed them there was actually very little discernable wear. I replaced them with Longfields which are almost twice as strong.
 
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have you ever redone your front knuckles?

I remember you mentioned it sat a long time neglected before your purchase of the old girl. You might want to pull the front end apart and repack the birfs. It's very common for the front axle seals to leak gear oil into the knuckle which turns the birfield grease into a slurry of nastyness.




is what it should look like

This would be the bad




Lack of lubrication in the birfield joints will make them noisy when turned to their limit.

Toyota Front Axle Rebuild

thats a pretty good read thru and what i used when i redid my front end.
 

rusty_tlc

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A knuckle service will likely cure the problem. As shancerlelby said birfs get noisy when they don't have grease.
 
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* Clacking is just in 4WD in tight corners.

* George, thanx 4 the pictures and the link. Yes, for two years it stood in a barn, resting from a hard life in the jungle. Pulling the front end is on my list of things to do. But it is one of the many cruiser things to do and this is my daily and only driver, so no 'big' things at the moment. Or maybe it is not a big thing, but I've never done it, so I'm first going to read some threads about it, starting with yours. And there's also the problem of availability of parts here. Btw, that sludge looks familiar. Sometimes it looks like my rig runs on it:D.

* Augirthdude, thanx for the info about the 'lock' between the front- and rear drive shaft. I have searched for that info, but couldn't find it. So if I would put a locker in my rear diff, I always have a minimum of three wheels that turn at the same speed?

Thanx for all the info guys. I'm glad I have found MUD. I would have a lot more problems if I had to find it out myself, and I hope that in time I can contribute some things myself:wrench:
 
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"Btw, that sludge looks familiar. Sometimes it looks like my rig runs on it."

haha yea mine marks its territory with thats sludge wherever it parts on a hot day. Take a look on the inside of the knuckles, if around the ball on the wipers have a sort of goop on them resembling what i showed in the knuckle you probably need axle seals. Mine sat for 4 years and it was most definatly leaking then. i drove it for about 6 months filling the front diff religiously till i could get the parts and put it together. dirty dirty job!
 

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