changing out breakers.

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Happy Holidays Everyone! Thought I would revive this thread with a few questions.

Santa was really nice this year and I received a Hobart Handler 187 and a 60 gal 3hp compressor. The welder is 50 amp and the compressor is 15 amp. Both are 230v.
I was simply going to splice into my dryer line but at the breaker noticed it is only on a 40 amp breaker. The line coming off of it is massive twisted wire, much larger than 10 ga. The guy at Home Depot recommended 12-2 romex for both the 15 amp compressor line and 50 amp welder line. Is 12 ga wire thick enough for 50 amp circuit?
If the wire is thicker than 10 ga, can I just switch out the 40 amp breaker for 50 amp breaker?
Can I run the 15 amp compressor off that breaker too or do I need to add and 230v 15 amp breaker to breaker box?
I do not have a main breaker that shuts off box. Is it most likely out by the meter?
Thanks for any help!

Brad
 
Holy crap, no 12 gauge wire isn't big enough for 50 amps. You need more like 6 gauge.

If the wire to your dryer is 6 gauge, you could swap out the breaker. However, running the dryer and the welder on the same circuit isn't a great idea. It'll work, but you would be better with a dedicated circuit for each. Or plug the welder into the dryer receptacle, so there's no chance of running them both at the same time.

You should definitely have a separate line for the compressor, as you're very likely to run both at the same time. Plus, the 50 amp breaker won't be giving you much protection for your compressor.

There should be a main shut-off at the main panel, or the meter if they're separate.
 
Lulu said:
Happy Holidays Everyone! Thought I would revive this thread with a few questions.

Santa was really nice this year and I received a Hobart Handler 187 and a 60 gal 3hp compressor. The welder is 50 amp and the compressor is 15 amp. Both are 230v.
I was simply going to splice into my dryer line but at the breaker noticed it is only on a 40 amp breaker. The line coming off of it is massive twisted wire, much larger than 10 ga. The guy at Home Depot recommended 12-2 romex for both the 15 amp compressor line and 50 amp welder line. Is 12 ga wire thick enough for 50 amp circuit?
If the wire is thicker than 10 ga, can I just switch out the 40 amp breaker for 50 amp breaker?
Can I run the 15 amp compressor off that breaker too or do I need to add and 230v 15 amp breaker to breaker box?
I do not have a main breaker that shuts off box. Is it most likely out by the meter?
Thanks for any help!

Brad
Click to expand...

No, the guy at Home Depot is an idiot if that's what he told you. Based on the questions you pose above, you need to call an electrician. Not trying to be an ass, but it's clear you're not familiar with the basics around electricity, which could be a disaster. Ask for a couple quotes and see if one of them will let you watch and ask questions to help educate you.
 
Thanks spike! After doing some looking online I noticed that 6-3 was the recommended wire for 50 amp. At least I can use the romex for compressor line.
In my breaker I have no main that is just for box. I note says "all mains must be off to kill power to entire house" but does not indicate how to kill power to box. I went out to look at meter box but it has a little plastic "lock" on it. Didn't want to break it but could not get it open to check for main kill breaker. Is that meter and box the property of elec company? What to do if I break that little lock while getting it off?
Looks like this is going to be more of a task than splicing into current 230v line. But I feel like it is not worth paying if I do it right. I have room in box for two new circuits, but my breaker box is recessed into wood. (Yes previous owner put of plywood in garage) so running in new wire might mean cutting hole in wall near breaker box and using side punchouts rather than trying to fish it in with all other wires.
Any suggestions?
 
CD- no offense taken. My wife's grandfather is an electrician and retired from the Baby Bell phone companies. What I know I learned watching him, but most has been 15 and 20 amp circuits. Running things in series, 3 ways, etc. Nothing heavy yet. He has been called for help, but I was going to look on here for advice too as I know there are several very helpful people on this board. My only real main concern right now is lack of a main breaker to disable box. I don't ind running all new lines to new breaker with proper breakers and proper gauge wire, I just need to be able to kill box first.
 
There may be no way to kill power to the main bus. The common way to do it if there's no main shut-off is to pull the meter. You would have to break the seal ('lock') to do that. I usually just avoid touching the main bus, but that's me.
 
Sub-panel

Ok, how bout this scenario. Splice the wire to the dryer in the attic and put in a sub-panel. Put in a 50 amp breaker with 6-3 for the compressor and a 15 amp breaker with 12-2 romex and then run the lines from that to garage receptacles. So dryer breaker, if I switch it to a 50 amp breaker, will be main cutoff for the two lines. Should I put in another 40 amp breaker for dryer and run it from the sub-panel too or simply splice it back in splice box?
These are just thoughts from a non electrician. Any thoughts are welcome.
 
-Spike- said:
There may be no way to kill power to the main bus. The common way to do it if there's no main shut-off is to pull the meter. You would have to break the seal ('lock') to do that. I usually just avoid touching the main bus, but that's me.
Click to expand...

FYI - It is a felony to pull the meter in AZ. SRP and APS will prosecute and you can loose your contractor license if you have one.
 
I have the same welder. The cord cap on the welder is a 50A cord cap but the unit only needs 25A to run at full capacity. Did you read the manual?:flipoff2: I upgraded my cord to 20' and changed the cord cap to a 30Amp dryer cord cap to make it more versatile away from my house.

From the manual:

5-7. Electrical Service Guide
Input Voltage 230
Input Amperes At Rated Output 20.5
Max Recommended Standard Fuse Or Circuit Breaker Rating In Amperes
Circuit Breaker 1, Time-Delay 2 25AMP
Normal Operating 3 30AMP
 
Ha

LCP- I did actually. I then went to HD to get receptacle and they said "oh no that is a 50amp plug you need this 50 amp receptacle and this 12-2 romex..." If I knew more that would have scared me off. But I am just learning 240v and heavy gauge wire rules. Is it really necessary then to switch out the plug if I already have a socket that fits the plug and a 40 amp breaker in my breaker box? Just run 10-3 romex from a splice box and put in a new 15 amp breaker for dedicated compressor line?
Thx
 
That is a great idea about changing to a dryer plug though. That way I can use it at my in-laws lake house... was going to try to weld up a fire pit and hauling it would be a b!tch.
 
You know, now that I am looking at the manual again :doh:
It says min input size 14 ga at 67 feet max lenth.
So really can the 12-2 romex handle this welder? Maybe the HD guy know the welder drew less amps than the plug indicated.:clap:
Seems it might, I don't mind buying 10 ga though if that is safer. That would save me a ton of trouble wiring in new cables for a 50 amp service.
Or as you mentioned change out the cable and use dryer plug and just use my existing dryer socket with 10 ga and 40 amp breaker?
 
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Lulu said:
You know, now that I am looking at the manual again :doh:
It says min input size 14 ga at 67 feet max lenth.
So really can the 12-2 romex handle this welder? Maybe the HD guy know the welder drew less amps than the plug indicated.:clap:
Seems it might, I don't mind buying 10 ga though if that is safer. That would save me a ton of trouble wiring in new cables for a 50 amp service.
Or as you mentioned change out the cable and use dryer plug and just use my existing dryer socket with 10 ga and 40 amp breaker?
Click to expand...

You are correct on the 14 ga at 67 ft from the manual ...WTF???:hhmm::meh:

Can 12/2 handle this welder -- Yes and no but you need to start another thread as we head off into another direction.:popcorn:

As for the HD guys if they were real electricians they would not be working at HD at 1/2 the pay:hillbilly:

I would buy a 30A dryer pigtail from HD to replace the pigtail that comes with the welder and use your existing dryer outlet and call it done. You can always extend the welders pigtail as I did for a little more working range. If you use 10/3 for the welders cord you can make it 50' long or 12/3 if you keep it under 25' with no issues.
 
LandCruiserPhil said:
FYI - It is a felony to pull the meter in AZ. SRP and APS will prosecute and you can loose your contractor license if you have one.
Click to expand...

I apologize, I didn't intend to imply that you should remove the meter yourself, just that it was the only way to disconnect the power. I meant to clarify that, but was in a hurry and after writing and deleting several different explanations I just hit 'send' and ran off to do my job. :o I should have said that you would need to call the power company if you needed to shut off the power. Thanks Phil, a real electrician's input was needed here. :D
 
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