- Thread starter
- #21
I'd been printing even the "metal" parts in plastic during the fitting, but I was finally ready to commit to metal. I bought some titanium, and hydro cut it at my university workshop. What an awesome machine.
Cedar's key fob build thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Ohthetrees
- Start date
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Great work!! Could you make one that deletes the panic button?
Are you selling these?
Uh... wow. Seriously? That's my design, right there. Aside from lower grade materials and some extra heft it's a pretty exact copy. Outer shape, titanium plate designs, screw hole locations, recessed nut cavities, key ring style location, everything.
I can appreciate the desire to 3D model and 3D print. I also suppose I should consider the imitation a sincere form of flattery...
However, that's my design, dude.
If the YotaMD key feels less solid than OEM there's definitely an installation issue or the key blade is funky. PM me and we can investigate. It should be rock solid.
I can appreciate the desire to 3D model and 3D print. I also suppose I should consider the imitation a sincere form of flattery...
However, that's my design, dude.
If the YotaMD key feels less solid than OEM there's definitely an installation issue or the key blade is funky. PM me and we can investigate. It should be rock solid.
I have one of your keys. The limited run maroon. I could attest it is rock solid, and very similar to the previous one mentioned.
- Thread starter
- #26
Chill out dude. I cited your product as design inspiration right at the top, but your design isn't quite the unique butterfly you think it is. Once you specify clamshell case with metal frame (which again, I credited to you), the rest of the design kind of flows from there. Make something as compact as possible around the guts and key blade, and it pretty much ends up being this external shape. That is because of Toyota, not because of you. Your product is better than mine in that it works with a variety of blade shapes, while mine, being just for me, doesn't have to. I also like your colors and finish. I have no idea if mine would work with the other blade shapes that are out there. And, as you can see from my images, the internals are quite different with a different (I think better) metal-to-metal way of clamping the blade without the fiddly pins. Contrary to your assertion, I prefer the materials mine are made from, which along with being a cool learning experience, is kind of why I did this project. PETG compared to nylon allows me better print resolution, isn't hydrophillic, and the ability to include inlayed designs. If I wanted to print it in nylon, I would have.
There is a long and honorable history across all of industry of reverse engineering products, making improvements (or failing to!), and selling them. Since the first stone tools, every product has been influenced by, and evolved from previous products. But even so, I've never seen one of your fobs in person, I didn't take any measurements from it, my frame, clamping system, and clamshells are all different than yours and came from my brain. Yours seems to be a "cavity with lid" design, and a split frame, the purpose of which eludes me. Mine is a more of a symmetrical with top and bottom of similar depth, and a full frame. This whole phenomenon is why you can buy 6 different kinds of sliders for our truck that are all basically variations of each other.
I have no plans to sell them, but I'd be well within my rights to if I wanted to. So take the compliment. I liked your design. I made it better (for my specific purpose). Just like pretty much every other product out there on the market. Cheers.
- Thread starter
- #27
Deleting the panic button would be pretty easy.
- Thread starter
- #28
I have no plans to sell them, but after a couple of more iterations of the design, I might post up some 3d files. If people are beating down my door for access to a a fob like mine I might reconsider and sell some, but honestly, at this point, I'd just go with the yotaMD product, which has an excellent reputation. As far as I can tell, the only big advantage of mine over the yotaMD fob is the ability to inlay custom designs, and a different surface finish, which isn't better or worse, just a matter of taste.
If you decide you to make a few and sell them. I would be interested in buying one that deletes the panic button.
I think it is awesome you are making your own product and not just buying something on the market btw.
I am a firm beliver in that if you have the tools and knowledge to build things you should give it try. As the only way to get the exact outcome you want is to build it yourself.
Plus competition breeds success and innovation.
I did catch the credits and compliments. Thank you for those.
The rub for me is the assertion that it turned out different than the YotaMD design. As I scrolled through the thread I kept seeing design choices (many arbitrary) and features that are nearly identical to the YotaMD design. We can both take our own mental path towards an end goal. If we end up in the same place, then we end up in the same place. I think that's what happened here. You may have taken your own trail, but you ended up at the campsite where YotaMD set up camp in 2017. That's fine, it's just annoying to read someone claiming they've done something different when you're staring at a replica of your own product.
For posterity for anyone coming across this in the future, the YotaMD assembly is indeed metal to metal around the blade for all styles. Pins are used as additional reinforcement for the I style blades. Nylon is used in YotaMD products to allow use of Multi-jet Fusion machines which are unparalleled in precision and layer blending. The split titanium ring serves a critical purpose as does the asymmetry in the shell.
atnolan94
I'm Your Huckleberry
Not going to lie, I appreciate the work, but Andy (yotaMD) has really blazed the trail on this. It is cool that you replicated your own and all, but to say this is drastically different than yotaMD is false. I don't believe it would be reasonable for you to try and sell this. Andy's quality in both material and workmanship is really high. I am not undercutting your design by any means. But call it what it is, a personal DIY project.
To the guy who said the YotaMD key is flimsy, you must have installed it wrong. After 2 OEM keys breaking I went to yotaMD and no issues since. I would gladly lend you my only key to do everything you want to try and break it and I assure you you will have a hard time. Andy has some awesome vids on the process to put it together. Check them out and maybe you missed a step?
@suprarx7nut
To the guy who said the YotaMD key is flimsy, you must have installed it wrong. After 2 OEM keys breaking I went to yotaMD and no issues since. I would gladly lend you my only key to do everything you want to try and break it and I assure you you will have a hard time. Andy has some awesome vids on the process to put it together. Check them out and maybe you missed a step?
@suprarx7nut
I'm with @suprarx7nut on this. Patenting costs way too much these days, so I doubt he has one, but that is clearly virtually the exact same. And you telling him to chill out probably isn't helping. I can't imagine how I would feel if something that I had spent years perfecting and sacrificed time and money into was blatantly mimicked in all aspects, and then touted as easy and a goof around project. I mean good job on the copy, @Ohthetrees but I'd love to see one area which was significantly different or improved in yours.
And by the way, as far as the solidity of the YotaMD key, it is rock solid, and I happen to have one of the crappy, flimsier key inserts too, anyone who says it isn't has not put it together properly.
I met with lawyers. $10,000-$15,000 for initial filing/legal fees alone. Another few thousand for common clarifications and amendments needed after initial review from the USPTO. Then you have to pay lawyers to draft cease and desist orders, file law suits, etc... Then if you're lucky you can collect some damages. More likely, though, you just play whack-a-mole with copycats as they go in and out of business.
Right, that is in line with most patent law costs, which is why I suspected that you didn't patent it. The patent system in this country is pretty screwy at this point, and doesn't favor small inventors, but that's sort of a conversation for a different day...
- Thread starter
- #36
I like this analogy. But as I see it, I noticed a cool looking trail called "clamshell with metal frame", knowing full well I wasn't blazing the trail, but I decided to see where it led. As we all know from over-landing, following other's trails is all part of the fun. I tried a bunch of different side trails (I had a version with 5 layers, I had a version with one really thick metal layer and flat top and bottom caps, I had a version with two metal frames) but it turns out the guy driving before me was pretty good, and made a bunch of pretty logical choices. So when I got to the end of the trail, I'd taken a lot of the same lines he had.
I didn't really mean to claim to have some new different thing. If it came off that way, I'm sorry. I'm just a hobbyist trying to learn how to do this stuff, and at the end of this trail, I did end up with something that looked a lot like yours, especially on the outside. I thought I made that clear by citing yours as inspiration. But mine suits me better and has some advantages that I like, and some disadvantages too, which I don't mind.
Sorry if I maligned your clamping system. I don't even know how yours works, and I didn't come across your video of your assembling yours until I looked around your website when I was trying to defend myself from accusations of stealing your design. I thought yours clamped the shell to the frame and blade with a nut, but I guess I misunderstood.
My "clone" of yours was based on seeing the external shape of yours, and I don't know the internals of yours very well.
I will cop to taking your idea of integrating the key-ring attachment hole into the metal frame itself. It's a good idea.
- Thread starter
- #37
I don't recall saying it is drastically different, and if I did, that isn't a statement I'd stand by. And I also don't remember claiming it is anything but a personal DIY project. I think I said right up in my first couple of posts that the purpose was to teach myself CAD modeling and some CAM/3D printing and to get a nice fob out of the deal. Mission accomplished. I think later commentators are imagining I made claims that I didn't.
Do you think Dissent ripped of Slee's blueberry bumper, or Slee ripped off Dissent? I don't think either of them ripped off anyone. I think as long as I didn't steal suprarx7nut's files, I'm well within my rights, and on ethically strong ground to make my own design, inspired by his, that meets MY design goals, not his. Even if I took measurements off of his (which I didn't) I'd still be in the clear. I have no plans to sell these fobs, but if there turned out to be a strong response to mine, for example my ability to inlay custom designs, I would without qualms. But I understand how we might differ on that opinion.
But before you condemn me too much, when you bought those White-Knuckle Sliders and put them on your truck, did you check whether they were too similar to the Metaltech sliders I have on my truck that look pretty similar with that nice kick-out at the rear that keeps obstacles from the rear fender? Very similar looking sliders. I have no idea who came up with that design first, but I'm glad we each had the choice to buy the sliders that suited each of us the best.
Cheers
- Thread starter
- #38
Yeah, I regret that tone. I was responding to him calling me "dude" and implying that I'd stolen from him, but I should have been de-escalating tone rather than escalating. Sorry about that.
This is delicate, because I don't want to critique his design, I think it is very good, and lots of his happy customers agree. But there are several things I like about mine.
I like that my frame is full frame instead of split.
I like that since mine doesn't have to accommodate all different blade styles, mine snaps nicely in place.
I like that mine doesn't require pins to be super solid
I like that my bottom frame capture design is meant to be manufacturable on a 3-axis mill, not just printed.
I like that mine (I think, never seen his in person) is more compact and thinner.
I like that mine has a more squared off look.
I like that mine has colors that are not surface applied, but goes right through the entire plastic body.
I like the surface finish on mine
I like that mine has contrasting color customizable inlays (won't scratch like paint or silk-screen), which wasn't really that easy to develop.
You said I did mine as an easy goof. First, so what if I did? This was a DIY learning project for me. I did it for fun and to learn. Second, it wasn't really. I took me a really long time, my wife thinks I'm insane, and as I look over my design files, I see that I have over 60 previous versions of the design, and I printed at least 20 iterations of these before I thought one was good enough to use "for real".
And I'm not finished yet. I've taught myself 3d printing with this project, and next I mean to learn how to do CNC milling. I'm going to try milling first from plastic, then see how much remote range suffers if I make one of the clamshells aluminum or even stainless. Or maybe the top and bottom metal, but a plastic "frame" to allow radio signals through. In many ways the 3d printed version is a prototype for the real final product that I envision.
cheers
atnolan94
I'm Your Huckleberry
I understand your point and appreciate the reply. And I am not being sarcastic when I say I appreciate the work you did here. I certainly do not have the resources or skill to do so. I think CAD is a really valuable skill in many spaces, outside of just our little bubble in here.
I don't feel the slider comparison is as valid. At a glance it is a similar product but there is a significant bifurcation of the actual design. Metaltech slider use a smaller main rail, only two "legs", smaller kick out, flat angle (as opposed to 15* upward clock on WKOR), a single outer tube on the WKOR vs two outer tubes on the MT, different tread plates, etc. Further inspection shows that your design is largely the same as YotaMD. The examples of why you like yours better is really really marginal. The titanium frame looks incredibly similar. The "plastics" are incredibly similar. I know there is not alot of ways to design a key, but AJT and YotaMD both have drastically different designs. I would liken that to our various slider options. Only so many ways to do it, but product differentiation is noticeable.
I don't want to come off as bashing, and I am truly not. But this is a homebrew YotaMD. I couldn't make this and I am not selling you short for doing so, it is cool. Just don't want you to infringe on Andy's business.
The slider analogy is a good one.
End result looks great. I got money for the first all-metal key fob - whoever makes it.
End result looks great. I got money for the first all-metal key fob - whoever makes it.
