Capable wheeler with good road manners questions

[walken100]

I won't be trailering my FJ40 which means I want it to be very well mannered on the road when I take drives to where I'll go wheeling. I also won't be doing anything in the way of hardcore wheeling but some serious trail work etc. So now the question. Everything is a trade off so I'm interested in people that have had a similar experience. Having a capable wheeler with good road manners.

About the truck so far:
- 77 FJ40
- Disc break FJ40 front axle/drum rear.
- SOA with stock springs and shackles
- SBC/700r4/Downey conversion

Planned
- Power steering (I have one of every box imaginable for mock up except scout)
- Anti-wrap bar
- Lots of other stuff but trying not to think too far ahead

I'm currently working on the suspension so I have a hand full of immediate questions:
- Rubber or poly bushings (from the reading it appears poly is the right tradeoff but lots of mixed info)
- Detachable sway bar (strong opinion for based on what I've read)
- Detachable Panhard bar (strong opinion against but I've been been watching a number of videos and the lateral movement of a leaf spring suspension appears to be far worse than some of the opinons I've been reading so I'm on the fence)

Anything else I should consider? Any tradeoffs you made you wouldn't do again?

One last little tid bit, it will be frequently driven on snowy roads at spead (living in Colorado ensures this) if it matters.

Thanks

 

[bad_religion_au]

I personally don't see the need for SOA if your not "hardcore". there are plenty of decent spring under options out there, and it won't be as tall/sway-ee as a SOA.

really depends on what your goal is for "tough trails". and build to the minimum that will work. a standard height 40, with some slightly longer spring packs/stretched wheelbase, with some fender work will clear 36's, have decent flex, and may only need a rear (disconnectable) swaybar to keep things tidy on road, if at all (mine didn't). with front and rear lockers and a snorkel, there isn't much short of a boulder field that would stop it.

never have driven scout/sagi power steering, but the 60 series power steering setups make the cruisers drive, through the front end, like a lightweight 60, which is decent.

the best mixed use rig i've ever driven on the blacktop was 80 series diffs/ suspension grafted onto a 40 chassis with swaybar disconnects.

 

[walken100]

The only thing I would have done differently is done a Scout PS conversion. I do NOT like the hole put in the front cross member from doing standard Saginaw PS.

My FJ55 is SOA with stock springs, 4.88 gears, 35s, and NV4500. The PS is a standard Scout PS box with hydro assist.

I'm assuming the hydro assist isn't because the scout box is not powerful as a saginaw box. Just want to be sure.

 

[walken100]

I personally don't see the need for SOA if your not "hardcore". there are plenty of decent spring under options out there, and it won't be as tall/sway-ee as a SOA.

Thanks for the input so far. A little more info. SOA is "in the bag", ie nearly done. I know this is one of those subjects with a lot of opinions but after reading lots of info from folks that had done it and having experienced the "manure spreader" ride of a poor lift I picked the SOA.

I do think that a sway bar (or 2) is the way to manage sway and straight forward to do.

 

[bad_religion_au]

Thanks for the input so far. A little more info. SOA is "in the bag", ie nearly done. I know this is one of those subjects with a lot of opinions but after reading lots of info from folks that had done it and having experienced the "manure spreader" ride of a poor lift I picked the SOA.

I do think that a sway bar (or 2) is the way to manage sway and straight forward to do.

who said anything about a lift? standard height, well sorted springs/spring rates, with a slight wheelbase stretch, and some smart bumpstop work will clear 35's...

 

[Fast Eddy]

who said anything about a lift? standard height, well sorted springs/spring rates, with a slight wheelbase stretch, and some smart bumpstop work will clear 35's...

Yea, but what's the clearance under the front of the front springs? Whatever it is, my SOA and shackle reversal is about 8" more.

 

[twoturtlesracing]

I'll be following this thread with interest, as I am strongly considering going SOA as soon as I put an end to some rust issues on my rig.

 

[DSRTRDR]

I have poly bushings due to their longer life

no sway bar, no panhard bar, sprung under

drives and wheels just fine

 

[JasonH]

Give yourself about 3 degrees of positive caster, set your toe-in to dead even or slightly toe'd in, and make sure everything is tight. Run well-balanced radial tires. This may not be 100% true, but to me, it seems like the scout ps trucks have a little better on-center feel than the 'standard' saginaw ones.

I'll trailer if the whole family is going (or if I know I'm going to be doing something really wierd), otherwise I drive mine everywhere. SOA, scout, 37's. 75 mph with one finger on the wheel.

 

[walken100]

Give yourself about 3 degrees of positive caster, set your toe-in to dead even or slightly toe'd in, and make sure everything is tight. Run well-balanced radial tires. This may not be 100% true, but to me, it seems like the scout ps trucks have a little better on-center feel than the 'standard' saginaw ones.

I'll trailer if the whole family is going (or if I know I'm going to be doing something really wierd), otherwise I drive mine everywhere. SOA, scout, 37's. 75 mph with one finger on the wheel.

Interesting. Do you have a sway bar(s)? Rubber bushings? Anything else I should be aware of?

 

[walken100]

Yea, but what's the clearance under the front of the front springs? Whatever it is, my SOA and shackle reversal is about 8" more.

Dang, I don't have a shackle reversal and I've measured my lift at 5.25 in. Oops just read this slowely. you aren't talking about 8 inches of lift. Not sure what my clearance is and I relized I measured my lift wrong. Forgot the spring pack.... Have to measure it right this weekend.

 

[kurtnkegger]

One thing you didn't mention on your to-do list, is disc brakes on the rear. You don't have to keep adjusting...stops true and nice...great to have on the trail.

No sense talking on whether a SOA lift is needed if it is already done.

 

[walken100]

One thing you didn't mention on your to-do list, is disc brakes on the rear. You don't have to keep adjusting...stops true and nice...great to have on the trail.

No sense talking on whether a SOA lift is needed if it is already done.

Rear discs are on my list but at a lower priority. Near new brakes now. First brake job and they are gone (I've gotta pretend I'm being thrifty...)

 

[crashn]

The rear disc break job is well worth it. There is no comparison between front disc and drum rear to four wheel disc. There are plenty of good write up's on MUD in the FAQ section.

Check out Poser when you need the parts. He is great to deal with and has quality machined parts and great prices and service. I installed one of his systems on my 78 and it is by far the best upgrade I have done. He will answer any of your questions also.

 

[Fast Eddy]

Interesting. Do you have a sway bar(s)? Rubber bushings? Anything else I should be aware of?

I agree with him, no sway bars, poly bushings. My wheel base is stretched about 6 inches and I have fj60-width axles, which probably helps some. Without sway bars it is "tippy" as my wife likes to say, but I kind of like to be reminded of the epic flex it is capable of. I've got a pair of sway bars from an fj60/62. I probably won't bother since I don't daily drive it.

Dang, I don't have a shackle reversal and I've measured my lift at 5.25 in. Oops just read this slowely. you aren't talking about 8 inches of lift. Not sure what my clearance is and I relized I measured my lift wrong. Forgot the spring pack.... Have to measure it right this weekend.

Yea, I've got about the same lift, but the shackle reversal provides at least another 2.5" of lift at the lowest point of the front of the front leaf springs.

 

[bad_religion_au]

Yea, but what's the clearance under the front of the front springs? Whatever it is, my SOA and shackle reversal is about 8" more.

running reversed springs, or 55 springs, or similar, approach angle is decent. especially if you run a cut down front bar, and are aware not to hit obstacles head on if required.

i agree with you, if building a boulder field crawler, it matters, but medium - heavy trail use? probably not as important. I know it hasn't caused me grief yet.

even better is 80 series coils/diffs. cut the chassis off at the front bib

 

[JasonH]

Interesting. Do you have a sway bar(s)? Rubber bushings? Anything else I should be aware of?

No sway bars. I think just regular rubber bushings. I am running 2.5" backspaced wheels and the rear springs are flipped so I'm a bit wider and longer wheelbase.
I never had an issue with my rear drums, but rear discs do take the drama out of highway speed stops.