can engine start w/o p/s installed

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I pulled my power steering pump last night and tore it down to see if I could find any sign of abnormal wear which would be causing the noise I spoke about on my last post. I did see some uneven wear on the inside of the drive gear but as nest I can tell, the gear in the motor looks clean although is runs in a pretty tight clearance. I was wondering if I can start the engine without the p/s pump in place to verify nothing else may be causing the noise, but will I still have enough oil pressure for the engine or will oil start squirting out where the p/s pump mounts?
 

powderpig

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Yes oil will come out the hole, make a plate of some sort out of thick plastic or some steel to keep the oil in. The gears are bathed in oil. Trying to see if the noise is from some other source? or just need to move the truck?
 
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yes I am just trying to make sure the noise I'd not being caused by something else. I am concerned that what I am hearing might be caused by the drive gears. The vane pump drive gear has an irregular wear pattern, actually it has several teeth on the heal that are shiney and have a sharp edge. I have filed lightly those edges but not sure about the gear inside the front engine cover. I know it is the same gear which drives the oil pump so I figure I will try to see if the oil pump drive is making similar sounds by itself. I don't know how the shop who replaced the ps pump could have messed up those gear teeth but they may have. I'll probably either get all new internal parts for my pump or just get a new one from Dan.
 
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I put a plate over the mounting location and started the engine briefly and those were no abnormal noises. So I guess the oil pump drive gear is alright. Now I will talk to Dan to decide how to proceed. Is there any precaution to be taken when installing the new pump to make sure the gears are properly aligned or will they just go together easily?
 
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Please continue with the saga. I'm having the exact same problem. Two psp's, knocking in each. Both were new Toyota parts, installed by dealer. I've gotta do the proper system bleeding technique this weekend. My thought process has been just like yours as to eliminating possible causes, but I ain't no wrench, so about all I'm capable of is the proper system bleed (and fluid flush), which I'll do this weekend. Hope you get this figured out, 'cause it's driving me nuts, and I'm afraid that something will get damaged.

The only possibly useful thing I can tell you is hearsay, as in unverified by personal visual inspection, but the Toyota mechanics swear that the gear fit is either go/no go. Of course, they'll also tell ya that the ps system is self-bleeding.

bootfoot
 

Clutchee

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Keep it up bro........... bootfoot & I are in the same boat.

Wife keeps driving hers due to school......but damn the noise is odd.

Same thing here.....after the pump replacment noise began, take away & still there.

One thing I'm thinking about is gettin a rebuild kit for the old pump, knocking that out & reinstall that pump & see what happens.

Did yawl keep your old pump....?
 
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Well I ordered a new pump from Dan and put it on the truck, got it primed and started the engine only to hear the same noise, just a little quieter but it is still there. The only thing left to try in relation to the p/s pump is the drive gear itself. Mine has some slight damage to several of the teeth which I have filed smooth but I ordered a bran new one to replace it with and we will see what happens. That gear is about $120 so hopefully it won't be a complete waste. What it looks like happened to this one is when it had been removed and replaced to a new pump, someone may have damaged it in a vise. The noise seems to get quieter when you put a little tension on the steering wheel but when you let the wheel go, it get louder again. I wonder what the symptoms are if the gear box is bad? Hopefully that is not what is wrong because a new one is $2000+ but I believe it can be rebuilt for much less.

Yes I have the old pump and took it completely apart, cleaned and checked tolerances and reassembled it and have it as a spare. It had some signs of wear but nothing abnormal so the pump may have actually been alright however it was a reconditioned unit when I paid for a new OEM unit. I will post again once I switch the drive gear and let you know if it works. I ordered a new gear, nut and woodrif key and a new o ring so we will see what happens.
 
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well the body and back cover plate had been reprinted and was flaking off and also the inside of the pump had some accumulation of some sludge ECT indicating it had been used and just not thouroughly cleaned. The new pump from Dan also had a green dot painted on the outside of the housing so I am assuming that is a sort of factory inspection symbol.
 
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Paying for new and getting reconditioned is complete crap. Both of mine were new AFAIK - had the green dot and were sold as new by the dealer.

Maybe the pristine gear will be the answer.

bootfoot
 
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I am still waiting for it. They had to order it from somewhere since it is not a part usually stocked. I hope that will fix it but am beginning to feel like it is not the problem. Someone did suggest that I put a small filter into the return hose where it enters the resevior because of the possibility of trash being disloged or getting into the lines at some point. I have run it in there for a few days now and am going to pull it out to see if it has collected anything but I cleaned the resevoir and screen very thouroughly before putting everything back together so it should be clean. However, that shop who did the work first there is no telling what they did to cause this noise in the p/s system. I really am afraid that there might be something wrong with the steering gear box since they did replace the high pressure hose. I guess it connects between the box and pump so they did remove the hose connections on the box and they could have contaminated the box somehow or they could have done something like run it without fluid or at least very little but I am not sere if that could damage the box that easily.
 

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ok the gear was damaged enough to cause my troubles. I put the new gear on and the noise is gone. Everything sounds normal and works fine.

I know I'm asking alot.....could you post pictures of the "worn" gear?:confused:

When you mention "damage" do you mean wear on the teeth of the gear?

Let me know.....if so guess I'm ordering a PS gear for the wifes 80:rolleyes:


Seems funny 3 of us replace our PS pumps & have the same noise arrise without warning.....curious what the mileage of all of our trucks are?

Could mileage be the issue....Wifes 96 has 178K on it.
 
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So I'll bet when they replaced the pump and you have to take the old gear and install it on the new pump, they messed up the teeth on a vice while trying to torque it in place. It is kind of hard to get to 54 ftlb on a vice with some sort of protection without the gear wanting to turn. I used a leather glove around the gear and tightened it in the vice and pulled it to about 50 until it strted to spin, so I then took it out and just held the gear in my hand with a glove and hit it a couple times with the impact to snug it down.
 
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My truck has about 160K but that I don't think that had anything to do with the gear because it sounded fine before I had the pump replaced. I will post some pictures of the gear so everyone knows what to look for. Does anybody know of an easier way to hold the gear while torquimg the nut to 54 ftlb? I know that is what they did because the damage is 180 degree on each side like a vice would do. When I ordered the new gear, I also got a new nut, woodrif key, big I ring, high pressure gaskets for the union since I was there and it all was not much more money.
 
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Ok here are a couple of photos showing the damage. Not much but evidently enough to cause problems.
L1010694.JPG
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