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Camshaft timing

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by bjowett, Jan 25, 2004.

  1. bjowett

    bjowett Supporting Vendor

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    Has anyone messed with the cam timing on the 1FZ? Looks as though advancing the spark timing helps power... the camshaft timing could be hiding some as well, and produce more than just a power shift.
     
  2. Wayne

    Wayne Bought by His blood, kept by His power

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    I'm a relative newbee to the 1FZ community and don't have that kind of tech knowledge yet :slap:........ maybe some of the other guys can answer the question. I haven't heard of anyone attempting to adjust the cam timing in a manner similar to adjusting the ignition timing ???..... most cams are non-adjustable :doh:. Cam related performance upgrades are usually accomplished by regrinding the cam lobes on the existing cam, which re-profiles the cam timing. But normally, new cams are purchased with a different grind (timing) :D. I am interested in hearing what someone else has to say about this :-\.

    Wayne S :cheers:
     
  3. bjowett

    bjowett Supporting Vendor

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    One can also adjust cam timing (position when compared to crank) to alter the power band... sometimes the factory will advance the camshaft timing for more low end... or retard it for emissions and maybe some high end??? By jumping a tooth on the chain, the the advance or retard will move roughly 9 - 11 degrees, which is too much, changes in the 1 - 4 degree area in either direction are more appropriate. Some cams have two different keyway slots which allows installation with two different cam positions relative to the tooth. The FSM shows 2 keyway slots... anybody have a picture of the cam gear which shows the relationship of these slots to their respective teeth?
     
  4. Wayne

    Wayne Bought by His blood, kept by His power

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    My brain must have been on leave :slap: :slap: :slap: when I responded to this thread. I know you can re-index a cam by moving the crankshaft sprocket a few degrees :doh:. Sorry for my technical incorrectness. I still haven't heard of anyone adjusting the cam timing on a 1FZ engine.

    Wayne S :cheers:
     
  5. robbie

    robbie Guest

    THe two key way in the cam sproket are way two far apart to do what you want. one key way is for the cam and the other is for the distributor drive gear. Inorder to change one key way, you would have to mess with both. No one currently makes a adjustable cam sproket. It would be nice if some one did. WHen I rebuilt my engine, block milled .010, head milled .025) I returned the timing back to stock by filing the damptner bolt holes to put more tension on the chain returning the time back. I have not taken the time to see if some company wants to make a adjustable cam sprocket.
    One thing to think about is that the chain goes around only the intake cam sprocket, and exhaust cam is geared to the Intake. So the relationship between Intake and Exhaust is not changeable. later Robbie
     
  6. bjowett

    bjowett Supporting Vendor

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    Ahhhh, excellent, thank you, Robbie! :beer: How does the big bore 4.7 run for you? Did you go with Toyota OS pistons?

    As for an adjustable cam gear, I was thinking about looking into the 2RZ/3RZ unit from LCE. It looks similar, but may be way off. Having one machined up would not be terribly difficult, but I'd like to know if is worth it beforehand.
     
  7. robbie

    robbie Guest

    Almost as much power as a supercharged crusier at this elevation. only about 2-3 mph difference on the test hill (from the shop to a curve sign behind the shop)on full exceleration. I have hit 115 non corrected speed with tools and with both tanks full. corrected speed was about 108-109mph. On the flats with no one around comming from the kanas border back to denver. I pick up a full gear when running up the hill to Esenhouser tunnel on 70, so instead of running in second high rpms I can run 3rd at a bunch lower rpm. Still want the turbo to run in lower rpms and in overdrive, and to compensate for the altitude. Yes stock oversize pistons, not much in aftermarket piston choices. later Robbie
     
  8. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

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    Don't let Robbie kid you guys.........


    His engine was hand assembled taking many, many hours that would break the bank if you had to pay him to repeat it. His runs like a striped ape but it took more than a set of 1.00 mm O/S pistons and rings. ;)


    D-
     
  9. bjowett

    bjowett Supporting Vendor

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    JE will build you any piston required, send em' a stocker along with some various measurements and CC's. I went that route back in 97 when I built the 3.0L in my VW.

    Any head work on that 4.7L?

    Did you snag the turbo manifold that was on ebay? Very nice piece. If I go turbo on the 1FZ, it will definetly be a twin turbo system, longer lasting and much less lag if done correctly.

    Thanks again for the good info.
     
  10. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

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    <<<<"Any head work on that 4.7L?">>>>


    A boatload ;)
     
  11. robbie

    robbie Guest

    Yes I spent about 14 hrs port and polishing the head. set the valves on the loose side to get the break in done. THe next couple of weeks I will be in it to set the valves on the low side to allow more breating. Yes JT wanted like 120 per piston and I was not really interested in spending my money that way. Id did have the rods, pistons, crank, pulley, drive plate balanced. the engine is so smooth all the way to red line. As for turbo, I only want it to compenstate for the altitude and highway driving. A Twin turbo system would give me way too much boost for the compression I have in my engine. I am not looking to set a land speed record, just better highway cruising. The engine I have is fantastic for off road. later robbie
     
  12. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    Robbie, any good sources out there for porting a head. Read an article a long time ago at it layed out the basic proceedure and mentioned worth while gains. They basically used the gasket as a template and opened up the passages in both the head and manifold to match the gasket. Used a type of dremel tool to both hog out the bulk material and then smoothout the casting imperfections.
     
  13. bjowett

    bjowett Supporting Vendor

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    Hey Rick, I'd be happy to help you P&P a head... I'll probably be doing a complete 1FZ buildup this spring for my new rig.... just snagged a 94 rollover from auction, lockers, 108k miles. $1550.

    Most of the attention with home porting should be paid to the bowl of the port and where it meets the valve seat, that is where most gains will be had... then along with cleaning up the casting lines, matching manifolds and such, a nice port that flows well everywhere can be had w/o flow bench work. Maybe(?) Robbie will share with us the amount of port work he did, and if he felt it was worthwhile.... :D
     
  14. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    It's something that has been in the back of my mind. I am tentatively pulling my head the end of March. I'm taking a week off which should more than enough time and am looking at different areas to do other work while I'm in there. Such as Radiator service, tearing intop that harness that a few prople have seen fail, maybe a PS pump rebuild, you get the idea. I understand the concept just don't want to need to oeder a new head ::).
     
  15. robbie

    robbie Guest

    well I believe that P&P helps alot, but I have not Dyno the truck to find out the powder out put. I did my wifes lower end the same as mine, bored over 1 mm but did not do the head work or mill the head as much. My truck is lots heaver with 35 tires and 4.88 where hers is 33 with the stock gearing with only sliders and arb bull bar. her truck will get up and go also, but my truck will move faster over all. Hers gets better fuel milage (recent trip to Santa Fe and back average 15 MPH at 80MPH) Only 2.5 OME lift, a well balance mall cruiser with off road dreams. Ben can hook me up with a Dyno, just have not done. maybe in a couple of weeks when the shop dies down a bit. I do have better throttle response then my wifes, which I would think is a benifit of the P&P. As for the time, yes it was worth it to me. I removed alot of Aluminum. Remember to wear a dust mask. I used a dremel tool with several different tool. I also polished the intake runners which I hope will not allow the build up of oil blow by that I see in most of the trucks I work on. Later Robbie
     
  16. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    My company had for a while an extensive manufacturing shop. Most valuable lesson I learned was that when working with aluminum you need to lubricate the work with Isopropyl alchohol. Put it in a spray bottle and just keep the work wet. Amazing how clean a thread can be tapped or hacksaw cut and never clogging the cutting tool. Anyone else heard this?
     
  17. bjowett

    bjowett Supporting Vendor

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    I've always used a light oil... never heard of the alcohol... have to look in to that.
     
  18. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

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    The system speed is such that I do not feel bad about asking this question:

    What if you slop some of yer beer on it? :whoops:
     
  19. ppc

    ppc M Go Blue

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    Dan,

    Shame on you for even suggesting the wasting of good beer!! ??? :cheers:

    Landtank mentioned Isopropyl alcohol, you can't drink that s**t!

    Woody to I have to post this in the Admin section, Dan ain't quite right? BTW the new server is screamin. Thanks for the effort.

    I would guess that the alcohol would work as the aluminum might "float" away on that and be removed. Oil is used when machining steel to remove the waste as well as for lubrication and cooling. The alcohol would cool the aluminum also but I don’t think it would be necessary.
     
  20. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    I think it's the alcohol's evaporation rate that is able to cool the aluminum faster than oil and that's what keeps it from filling and packing in you bits. You really need to try it to see how well it works.