Bye bye F engine, welcome 2F! (1 Viewer)

[Francesco_from_Italy]

Hi everybody, I decided to replace my old, tired stock F engine with a 2F I bought a couple of years ago.
My car is a 1972 FJ, the 2F comes from a early 1979 FJ.
Actually I have a 5 gears H55F gearbox and I would keep running it; fortunately I noticed that the 2F was probably coupled with another H55F so I shouldn't have to modify the gearbox bell.
Now here there are my questions:

1 - First of all: what do I have to modify to swap the engine? Engine supports, fan, flywheel or...
2 - Now that the 2F engine is still on the ground, is there something I can do to fix it in the better way before put it up?

Soon I'll post a couple of pics to be clearer.

Thanks a lot!!

 

[Francesco_from_Italy]

Old F engine:

New 2F engine:

 

[mookie]

total shipped for the extra H55 to 30179 please?

seriously though- i think a lot of people like to use the F head and intake on 2F's

 

[GarageRat]

shipping from Italy would be pretty pricey...

 

[landcrusher909]

Hi everybody, I decided to replace my old, tired stock F engine with a 2F I bought a couple of years ago.
My car is a 1972 FJ, the 2F comes from a early 1979 FJ.
Actually I have a 5 gears H55F gearbox and I would keep running it; fortunately I noticed that the 2F was probably coupled with another H55F so I shouldn't have to modify the gearbox bell.
Now here there are my questions:

1 - First of all: what do I have to modify to swap the engine? Engine supports, fan, flywheel or...
2 - Now that the 2F engine is still on the ground, is there something I can do to fix it in the better way before put it up?

Soon I'll post a couple of pics to be clearer.

Thanks a lot!!

Welcome first off thats a good swap, your 2F will bolt right in to the same mounts as your 1F I am guessing your running a 3speed trans ? if so your 3 speed bell housing will bolt right up, as far as your new 2F I would suggest new gaskets . oilpan, side cover, valve cover and also the rear main seal. Keep posting pics and if you need anything let us know

 

[Francesco_from_Italy]

Thousand thanks for your help!
I would like to do all that thing in the easiest and cheapest way, so I'm not convinced about the idea of opening the two engines and using parts of each.
About the new parts, you're right, I'd better refresh everything possible, but consider that here in Italy is not easy to find old Toyota parts; I planned to change spark plugs, oil filter, clutch disk and probably the rear main seal. Do you think would be enought? What about manifold gaskets? In the current engine they are giving me a lot of problems...
By the way, do you know where I can ask in the US for the parts I need? I tried cruiserparts.net, was pretty good, do you have any other suggestions?
Anyway, the important thing is that the swaps fine, without to much work.
I will update the thread as soon as possible!

 

[Francesco_from_Italy]

Ooops, I forgot a thing: now I run a 5 speed gearbox coming from a HJ 61 (to put it on I modified the old gear bell that was coupled with a 3 speed gearbox)and I would like to keep it. I tried the gear bell of the new engine and seems to be coupled with that kind of gearbox, is it possible? The engine is a gen or feb '79.

 

[Combat Chuck]

Old F engine:

...

New 2F engine:

Molto bene, Francesco!
I think you've chosen a great motor to swap in, and I look forward to your progress.
As previously stated, this should be a mostly bolt-in swap, especially since you're already running an H55, all the difficult steps, such as cutting and relocating of the transmission cross-member has already been done.

I'm subscribed to this swap!

Buona fortuna; il mio amico!

 

[landcrusher909]

Thousand thanks for your help!
I would like to do all that thing in the easiest and cheapest way, so I'm not convinced about the idea of opening the two engines and using parts of each.
About the new parts, you're right, I'd better refresh everything possible, but consider that here in Italy is not easy to find old Toyota parts; I planned to change spark plugs, oil filter, clutch disk and probably the rear main seal. Do you think would be enought? What about manifold gaskets? In the current engine they are giving me a lot of problems...
By the way, do you know where I can ask in the US for the parts I need? I tried cruiserparts.net, was pretty good, do you have any other suggestions?
Anyway, the important thing is that the swaps fine, without to much work.
I will update the thread as soon as possible!

Toy will not be able to use to much from your old 1F motor on the 2F you can swap out the intake and exaust that way you can still use your old exaust collector and pipe. I would suggest changing the rear main seal, oil pan gasket and intake/exaust gasket everything else you can change after its installed if your looking to save money. You can post up in the parts wanted section I do not know the cost of shipping but if you want PM me a list of what your looking for and I can price it here and then check the cost of shipping to Italy. Do you have any Toyota dealers there we could get you the part numbers if you do. Just let me know Rob

 

[waiting for time]

Hi Francesco,
There is a company that sells cruiser stuff in Portugal, don't know them but others in Europe have used them. Shipping in Europe is a lott cheaper then in the US.

Good luck with your swap.

 

[Josie'sLandCruiser]

Hi All:

Greeting Francesco!

You can use the clutch parts you have now with the new engine.

Clean-up the 2F. If you can this is the time to replace all the gaskets (valve cover, side cover, oil pan, & timing gear.)

Yes, plan on replacing all of the ignition parts (spark plugs, wires, distributor cap, and so on.)

Send a message to Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters he can supply the parts you need at a reasonable price.

Good luck!

Alan

1 - First of all: what do I have to modify to swap the engine? Engine supports, fan, flywheel or...
2 - Now that the 2F engine is still on the ground, is there something I can do to fix it in the better way before put it up?

Soon I'll post a couple of pics to be clearer.

Thanks a lot!!

 

[Francesco_from_Italy]

Hi everybody! That's what happened in the last days: I talked to some mates who are helping me in the work and I decided to put the engine on as it is now. I talked also to the old owner who told me that everything should run fine, oil filter and sparks are new and he suggested to put the engine and try it.
In the pic you can see the engine ready to be removed; fortunatley I can do it without removing the gearbox too.

Soon new updates!

 

[DSRTRDR]

keep the '72 intake, carburetor and air cleaner

my 2F runs well with them

 

[Mace]

the later carb is actually bigger.

And, heads are not interchangeable without a lot of work.

 

[Francesco_from_Italy]

Hallo everybody. Here there are some news: the engine is down.

I began to think about buying some new pieces and I looked at the clutch group.
The bell is not a problem, the clutch disk neither, since I'll buy a new one.
The push clutch are different: one has 6 bolts and the other 9 bolts; anyway, the 4200 one is exhausted so I think I'll keep mine. Adding to that, the flywheels are different noy only for the bolts, but also for thickness and weight: 4200 one is lighter than 3900 one. They also have different codes: 3900's is 13451-60010, 4200's is 13451-60060. Wich flywheel should I keep?
Anyway, here it is an overwiey of the two clutch groups (3900 on the left, 4200 on the right).

One last thing: the disassembly of rear main seal seems to be easy, is it true?

Francesco

 

[Pighead]

You have an early clutch (the 3 finger) and a later clutch (the diaphragm style).
Earlier flywheels are slightly heavier and some people like them for that (more rotating weight doesn't stall so easily). I believe that you can use either type of pressure plate with either flywheel, BUT you will want to use the rest of the clutch parts that match your pressure plate...throw-out bearing, clutch fork and pivot and clutch slave cylinder.
Also, the front motor mounts of the 2F use bigger bolts than the F. Either use 2F front motor mounts or drill out your F mounts for the bigger bolts.
A late F head will work on a 2F block, but not the earlier 1F head.
Also note that the oil pressure sender hole is relocated on the 2F.

 

[Combat Chuck]

I remember reading on Mark's website that he favors the three-finger style clutch as opposed to the diaphragm- one's slightly heavier-built than the other. I'll see if I can find that again.

Edit: he finds the rotating mass of the earlier flywheel desirable over the later. The earlier pressure plate will "chatter" and is a little tougher on the frequent-shiftig driver, but the heavier flywheel will lead to less stalling.

"a.3 SPEEDvs. 4 SPEED [3 finger vs diaphram] (DD?) The 7/74 and older FJs came with a large recessed stepped flywheel and a 3 finger type pressure plate. The 8/74 and newer came with a diaphram type. When people are looking at swapping in newer motors and/or trannies, they often wonder about changing the clutch setup as well.

Why? Well if you have had a problem with clutch chatter with a 3 finger pressure plate, you probably heard somewhere along the way about how much smoother the diaphram pressure plate is. This is undeniable. So why would anyone stay with the older clutch then? Because if you don't spend a lot of time shifting, and you do spend a fair amount of time off road, you will appreciate the fact that the heavier flywheel of the older clutch type will keep the motor spinning at lower rpm than the newer one will [i.e. it's harder to stall!]

If slippage is a concern, I have found rebuilders who were willing to install heavier coils into the 3 finger pressure plate. All you can do to the diaphram pressure plate in this regard is add plate weights like Centerforce uses, which do not really start to apply their extra pressure until much higher rpms, not usually where you're running your cruiser for longevity's sake.

Bottom line: I'm not advocating taking out a diaphram setup if it's already in your rig. But if you've got one, think for yourself before ditching it based on a rumor that the grass is greener on the other side."

Exerpt from the FAQ of marksoffroad.net.

 

[Combat Chuck]

Personally, bottom line:
Run whatever you will be able to source parts for. If you know someone who can rebuild the "fingered" pressure plate, and you want the rotating mass, then go for it, but if parts for the diaphragm-type are cheaper and easier to come by, then do that. The 40 is the ultimate incarnation of practicality vs. functionality, most of the series was released with what was available to Toyota for production to scale, and many of their production features were derived directly from their old 1-ton trucks because they had the peices on-hand, and it was the most practical thing for Toyota to do. Therefore, there's no shame in making a decision based on the practicality of the parts in question.

 

[landcrusher909]

You have a 4 speed there stick with the factory diaphram pressure plate, In fact most people swap out the 3 finger 3 speed pressure plate to the diaphram 4 pseed style there alot smoother and less chatter. I swapped out the one in my 45 PU and it works great. and yes replacing the rear main seal is easy pop the old one out and replace just take you time and with the motor out you should not have a problem

 

[Lug Nut]

F vs 2F

I have a '73 FJ40 with a good running original F, Holley carb, 3 speed, Orion transfer, ARBs, 4" rock springs, on 35's. May have an opportunity to buy a 2F with 4 speed out of a very clean, good running '80 FJ40 very soon... thinking there may be some advantages in transplanting the 2F. Can anyone tell me what to expect and if there are worthy advantages to justify transplanting? Thanks