Bushings I don't know how they should be, my gut is telling me something is WRONG?? (1 Viewer)

[cryoguy6075]

Keep up the good work! And I wish my rig was half as nice as yours! I love the color too!

 

[78GroundUp]

I needed that...

Keep the good work coming I'm about to swap some older Downey springs and with my combo of shackles OEM and aftermarket I may have the same issues. Kudos for making this work I applaud you!

Thank you Micah, I needed that.... did not expect to wake up this am to Donny (anonymous) Paradise's response. So I went to his public page and viewed a # of his other responses on other threads. While some are informative, most are judgemental and condescending. So I no longer carry the weight of his judgements as I did an hour or so ago....

I apologize to all you "Donny Paradise's" out there.... this does not come natural to me, I did not take Auto shop in high school, I did not go to a vocational school for mechanics, I did not have a dad to do rebuilds with..... all that said, I will overcome, and the best part it will be mine, and I will know.... its gonna be NICE too.

 

[DomSmith]

All the work of grinding off the "modified original" spring perch and welding a new old unmodified perch is way too much work IMO. I think lcwizard's idea of getting the modified perch bolt size closer to stock is a good one. Just be sure to drill them straight! Sounds ike you're doing the right thing by fixing your truck based on what works best for the future, not which $3/each bushings you have on hand.

Just to clean up the info and eliminate some of the confusion can you fill in the blanks on your measurements?:

Front
Hole on spring eyes:
Shackle bolt size:
Bolt size used for spring perch at center of truck:
Hole on spring perch at front of truck- where shackles attach:

Rear
Hole on spring eyes:
Shackle bolt size:
Bolt size used for spring perch at center of truck:
Hole on spring perch at rear of truck- where shackles attach:



Dom

 

[Fast Eddy]

I didn't really follow all of that, but they have all permutations of conversion bushings at SOR. My dumb rig has about five different types. It's an aspect of my truck that I'm not thrilled about.

http://www.sor.com/sor/cat289.tam?page.ctx=cat289.tam

The PO has welded a plate over the hole where the spring pin should be recessed. If you grind that off you can use normal pins, which provide a better seat for the bushings.



When you use a bolt you have to set the tension on the bushings. On a stocker you just tighten the bolts all the way. The tension is set by the spring perch.

 

[78GroundUp]

All the work of grinding off the "modified original" spring perch and welding a new old unmodified perch is way too much work IMO. I think lcwizard's idea of getting the modified perch bolt size closer to stock is a good one. Just be sure to drill them straight! Sounds ike you're doing the right thing by fixing your truck based on what works best for the future, not which $3/each bushings you have on hand.

Just to clean up the info and eliminate some of the confusion can you fill in the blanks on your measurements?:

Front
Hole on spring eyes:
Shackle bolt size:
Bolt size used for spring perch at center of truck:
Hole on spring perch at front of truck- where shackles attach:

Rear
Hole on spring eyes:
Shackle bolt size:
Bolt size used for spring perch at center of truck:
Hole on spring perch at rear of truck- where shackles attach:

Dom

Ok Dom, I am going to do my best here. I have only worked on the front so far. Rear looks similar. I did the front first before getting measuring calipers involved..... Here I go.

Hole on spring eye = exactly 1.00". --> left spring rear eye. (only one free to measure as of now)

Shackles are 5/8" hole size on both sides of one shackle (specter HD 2 1/2" over)

Bolt size for perch currently on truck is 1/2"
Hole is also 1/2"

Additional info/question:

1) On stock pins one side (outside) has oval w/pin and two holes. The opposing side is just a bolt with lock wash and nut. What size is that bolt on the inside of perch. - I am assuming it is 1/2" and that is why I have a 1/2" bolt.... Pure assumption on my part. But might explain why it is not 9/16"

2) Leaf eye is exactly 1.00". Would I use a 1.00"OD bushing or a 1 1/8"OD bushing,

3) on the front, when putting on shackles. Bushings fit snug into frame side but was a bit loose into leaf eye. (see video)

 

[lcwizard]

The stock spring eye and shackle hanger tube are 25mm, effectively 1".
The stock bushings specs are around 25mm (1") OD with a 14.5~14.7 ID( close to 9/16")
The stock pin used a shouldered bolt so you couldn't over tighten the bushings.
The pin would be ~14.7 mm where the bushing rides , shouldered down to a 12mm thread
that passes through the 1/2" hole you speak of. Something like the pins here

4+Plus Greasable Spring Pin

 

[Fuzzy Logic]

Not sure POS project is a fair statement.... Assuming POS= piece of sh@t. You have been following my post's. And yes it has it's character. But as all of you have dealt with, These are changes that were made by either a shop or a PO. Why or how do I know this..... Because the real issue here is not the rig. It is my knowledge of turning wrenches. It is me that is having the trouble. I never have, until now gotten in there and done the work. The distance I have been able to come thanks to the kindness of others, the Internet, the Haynes manual, and the Toyota Manual, I think is impressive. I had a shade tree mechanic helping but my knowledge is not enough to know the difference between OEM gaskets, and aftermarket..... But now I do. (wish I did prior)

Their have been some locals, a 'few' mudders, and a couple pros who have been willing to give me their knowledge assisting me in doing "whats right" for my 40. Do I know that it is frustrating for those that help to explain to me what I don't know.... Yes I am aware. But since I have taken over this project I have learned and seen every BS move that has been made on the rig..... and since I don't live and breath mechanically I am not always sure what is "safe"

So in summation the POS you might be referring to is probably not the cruiser at all. It is probably me...... And yes I am very aware of my inadequacies, but like all things in life, you can sit back and complain or get your hands dirty.... I chose the latter. And through the willingness of others I have come too far to be jilted by your one opinion. What does my $$$ have to do with your willingness to either help or not??

So if you want to know how much my POS project cost me.... It's in one of my threads or one of my posts somewhere.... You can go find out. As far as your opinion, like everything else, someone's got one. There is five different ways to fix this rig. Snoozer would do it one way, Fast Eddy might do it another..... Is either way right? Wrong? No just different. The suspension alterations were done in 93'ish, maybe?? That's the last time I know the work was done on the springs..... Mod's could have been done prior.... I don't have a clue.

Donny, if your not happy with my POS project. Your entitled. But please have the courtesy to either help out or move on.... I am struggling my ass off over here...mentally and physically. I have come a long way from knowing "nothing" about wrenching. I would always taking my car to the shop and allowing others to do the work. I see where that has gotten me!!

So to those of you who do help and have helped I am thankful. Appreciative that maybe the day will come I can help another. Right now I am focusing on getting my rig finished (are they ever?) and maybe I can then spend my time paying it forward to another who might be struggling.

So Donny if you actually read this..... What do you think should I go back to factory pins? Or should I router out the wholes to a 5/8" diameter to take a larger pin..... Or should I just log off, delete my account and give up????
I am interested in your POV??

Long Winded Blow Hard......

 

[donny paradise]

After reading this thread, I often wonder how people got by in life before the Internet came along.

 

[78GroundUp]

To all of you who put in your knowledge, and .02, I thank you. There is only one way around this and that is to do it the right way. PIA, maybe, but in the long run, putting it back the "right" way, is the only way. Up in the AM to order the right parts... and then to grinding. Gonna be a long day in the garage.

LCwizard, thanks for the dimensions.... Fast Eddy, thanks for the .02, I don't want that, to get done and regret that I did not take the time to do it right. Dom, thank you for this --> "Sounds like you're doing the right thing by fixing your truck based on what works best for the future, not which $3/each bushings you have on hand." Cjgoode,Micah & Cryoguy6075, thanks you for the encouragement... the results will show.

As far as you Donny, I too wonder what you did before the internet. You sure spend a lot of time here, putting down others. Having read your posts, you don't have information for others, you have judgement. Big difference. I assume before you got the internet you spent a lot of time getting you ass kicked on the playground for being a jackass..... But that just my .02

Thanks for the help y'all....

 

[MicahMan]

I'm glad I could help out trust me I've beaten my head against the wall many times with my choices budget and options.

I just got back from a weekend with the in laws picked up some oem rims for a great deal and another cruiserhead had dropped off some 4" lift springs for me under my rig. I feel like christmas!!!!!!! Now the headaches with bushings begin.

Would sleeving the bolt be an option at all? I don't know if that works on suspension parts or even where to find bolt sleeves.

Keep up the great work.

P.S. your rig is super clean I love it!

 

[78GroundUp]

Hey Micah... good to hear the score on the parts... you will feel my joy/pain. But then again you were just with the inlaws....LOL, I will not judge, Thats your world.

As you have read, I have decided to go back to stock and measured everything twice. Shackles, pins, leaf spring eye's, Leaf spring widths, etc. Monday AM I make the phone calls. then I will modify it back to stock.... The only thing I am unsure of now is the FLange on the bushing. Hoping, Specter or Energy has the right answers I am looking for.... to get it back the way it should be.

PIA, Yes, but its my PIA.....ok y'alls too in a way. I could not have won past battles without y'all. I hope you all know that I appreciate and respect your help. Thankfully now-days we have the internet. So I don't even have to spend time thinking about what I would do without it. Because it is, so it should be utilized... (*me laughing, again)

I considered sleeving the bolt this morning. And shopped for an option. I am sure there is one. But searched the entire WWW and couldn't find it. Guess the WWW is not good for everything..... (LOL, again, grin)

The only way is the right way... so it will be. I will be satisfied in the long run when it is done. And done right.

Cheers, Respect

 

[MicahMan]

The only way is the right way... so it will be. I will be satisfied in the long run when it is done. And done right.

Cheers, Respect

This is so true! Doing it your way makes it the right way! I don't think I'll ever sell my cruiser seeing how we have the long family history but if we do I'm sure I'll get the curses from the new owner probably here on mud talking about my "Hack" job ha ha ha.

I'm stoked to see your progress and hope to see you out on a run or two. You coming to cruise moab? Just make sure to keep pics coming thats what we all really live for on this forum!

Now to go spray some more pb blaster! The bolts are coming off today!

 

[cruiserjunkie]

I sleeved my bolts on my 60 springs to 5/8 I see no down side to it and many manufacturers use sleeves in factory setups. Use anti-seize between the sleeve and bolt so you can take it apart if you want to later.

 

[MicahMan]

Where is a good source?

 

[78GroundUp]

Hey Micah, I spoke with Energy Suspension today..... Very helpful with teaching, showing, and explaining the world of bushings. For some stupid reason, I think it was the 1/2 bolt in the center perches. I assumed the diameter of the stock pin was 9/16ths.

Anyway, I digress, energy went through all kinds of setups (including sleeves) to remedy my dilemma. Might be able to source through them??

May I inquire what your setup dimensions will be when new equipment is on.

All those measurements Dom and eddy needed when helping me?? I am still interested in the subject. Even though I have remedied mine.

Got three sides ground and clean..... Even saved the 8mm threaded holes for stock pins I ordered today..... Not fun!! But 3/4ths behind me, just waiting on pins and bushings. All new shackles/ bushings all around.... Consensus says it will be like a Cadillac from what I was driving..... We shall see???

 

[DomSmith]

All those measurements Dom and eddy needed when helping me?? I am still interested in the subject. Even though I have remedied mine.

The measurements were meant to find a solution to your existing setup. But I think taking it back to stock is a WAY better option. I've owned my current 40 for 18 years and the previous one for 4 years before that. When I look back some of the stuff I did on the first one I can't believe I did some of it, but with limited funds as a kid and lack of knowledge it is what it is. Now you can make it right even if the PO (you) may (or may not) have hacked it up on a college budget.

Once you have it back to stock to fit the OEM spring pins all the way around you'll just have to source the correct bushings for your spring eyes and shackle bolts...

24 Total
Front:
(4) 1" O.D. (rear spring eye) w/ ~14.7 mm I.D. (stock spring pin side)
(4) ~25mm O.D. (upper shackle hanger) w/ 5/8" I.D. (for shackle bolts)
(4) 1" O.D. (front spring eye) w/ 5/8" I.D. (for shackle bolts)

Rear:
(4) 1" O.D. (front spring eye) w/ ~14.7 mm I.D. (stock spring pin side)
(4) ~25mm O.D. (upper shackle hanger) w/ 5/8" I.D. (for shackle bolts)
(4) 1" O.D. (rear spring eye) w/ 5/8" I.D. (for shackle bolts).

The 25mm could probably be substituted w/ 1" anyway. The only difference in the setup as it stands now would be 1/2" bolts on the spring pin sides.

Clear as MUD??

 

[DomSmith]

BTW Fast Eddy's idea of modifying back to stock by grinding off the welded plate is a better idea than hacking off the entire hanger. I'm a little curious as to why they welded the tab in the first place?

Are the two small threaded mounting holes (on the spring perch) for the spring pins welded over? I can't tell from the pics. Those threaded holes will have to be intact for the original spring pins to work.

 

[MicahMan]

So the springs I have have 2 different bushings. On the spring pin side they are stock size id but slightly larger od. Oddly enough bushings from a k5 blazer fit perfectly. I will use stock shackles up front do the id of these is stock and will use the blazer bushings. The rear will use the bushings that came with it add I have some aftermarket shackles that are 1 inch longer but use a 5/8 bolt which is what the springs had on them. This should be a perfect set up.

 

[MicahMan]

I have some pb blaster soaking and will attempt the fronts Friday and Saturday. Along with some or wheels I just painted

 

[DSRTRDR]

After reading this thread, I often wonder how people got by in life before the Internet came along.