building manifolds what steels work? what dont? (1 Viewer)

[cody c]

Hey,

Im debating building a prettier turbo manifold on my 3B when I stick it in the hilux.

As such Im wondering what steels will and will not work well?

I welded some stainless a while ago and it turned out pretty decent. I would kinda like to try stainless again, but not if it would be problamatic and prone to cracking.

As far as other steels go, what grades or sources would be ideal?

And is there anyone who has already cut/waterjet out a manifold flange to weld the piping to, that I can order from to cut down on labour?

 

[jzilla]

KingSpence just had a flange cut in Edmonton...See his turbo thread.

 

[amaurer]

Mine is A36 and works fine. There was someone on here who said stainless (or was it A36?) will flake apart or something... but he was full of s***. I don't think you need to worry toooo much about the steel.

I posted some dxf files for the manifold here that any waterjet shop can use directly:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/418145-3b-exhaust-flange-drawing-cad.html
(post 13)

Also I gave a name of a good (stateside) waterjet place in post 1 of my MegaCheap build. My flange from that file was $70 shipped in 1/2" A36:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tec...drews-megacheap-homebrew-3b-turbo-thread.html

Note that there are two in my zip file look like this - you'll have to remember to tell your shop which you want:

 

[amaurer]

One more... I figure if you're after a manifold with tube runners you'll probably appreciate some extra material around the ports to weld to. Here is a 3rd option which you may prefer:

http://www.cruiseruser.com/3b_manifold2.zip

 

[slowandsteady BJ]

Cody,

I built a stainless manifold and the pics are everywhere on this board.

Stainless is fine. Wont rust, It won't flake, it wont crack, (if built properly).

It will, however try to warp if the correct precautions aren't taken.


You seem to know your way around aluminum (to say the least) so stainless should be a breeze for you.

Stainless is cool and has the bling factor but it isn't practical IMO.

Good old mild steel works fine and will last a looooong time plus its 1/3 the cost of stainless...easy.
I can point you in the right direction for inexpensive hardware (building components), stainless or not. let me know.

Cam

 

[blis]

I would go for mild steel unless bling is a factor...

 

[cody c]

Cody,

I built a stainless manifold and the pics are everywhere on this board.

Stainless is fine. Wont rust, It won't flake, it wont crack, (if built properly).

It will, however try to warp if the correct precautions aren't taken.


You seem to know your way around aluminum (to say the least) so stainless should be a breeze for you.

Stainless is cool and has the bling factor but it isn't practical IMO.

Good old mild steel works fine and will last a looooong time plus its 1/3 the cost of stainless...easy.
I can point you in the right direction for inexpensive hardware (building components), stainless or not. let me know.

Cam

Ill PM you for your sources.

Bling is a factor, but so is money, in which case costs kinda make the final decision.

Thanks for all the info, I will probably use your zip file and order from your reccomendation!

Thanks again fella's!

 

[canucksafari]

I can point you in the right direction for inexpensive hardware (building components), stainless or not. let me know.

It would be great if you could share your material sources. I am sure I am not the only one in Western Canada thinking about building a log turbo manifold.

 

[Dougal]

Mild steel of heavy wall thickness is ideal for home-built headers. 300 series stainless has two problems, firstly it expands/contracts 50% more than mild steel, secondly this expansion/contraction eventually leads to it cracking.
Ferritic stainless (400 series) is better, but doesn't have the shiney look or corrosion resistance of 300 series.

If you want bling, make a plain carbon steel manifold and get it coated.

 

[mainlander]

It would be great if you could share your material sources. I am sure I am not the only one in Western Canada thinking about building a log turbo manifold.

John, you can get mild steel parts (elbows and T's) from most any of the steel fab shops around town or actually from Metal Suppermarket in Langley, 200th and 92A I bet. Pretty inexpensive. I made mine (when I owned my truck, Kim bought it on Friday) from 1.5" Sch 40 short radius elbows on the ends and 1.5" sch 40 Tee's for the middle. See signature line.

 

[gerg]

Ive used mild steel sch 40 and never had cracks except for when I ground down a weld too much to make it look pretty r. Serves me right for giving a crap about how it looks.

 

[canucksafari]

John, you can get mild steel parts (elbows and T's) from most any of the steel fab shops around town or actually from Metal Suppermarket in Langley, 200th and 92A I bet. Pretty inexpensive. I made mine (when I owned my truck, Kim bought it on Friday) from 1.5" Sch 40 short radius elbows on the ends and 1.5" sch 40 Tee's for the middle. See signature line.

Kim is getting to be quite the hoarder! You planning on another Cruiser which is less of a project?

Back on topic, where did you get your steel flange cut? Did they also do the turbo mount plate? Was it also the same grade of mild steel for the flange and turbo mount plate?

I've given up looking for the replacement parts for my mig gun and will order in new from KMS again. That will remove the procrastination to get moving on this in the spring. What turbo did you end up using? I don't remember you having a thread on it. A turbo for a 2H would be fine for a TD4.2 also. The displacement is almost exactly the same.

 

[cody c]

Mild steel of heavy wall thickness is ideal for home-built headers. 300 series stainless has two problems, firstly it expands/contracts 50% more than mild steel, secondly this expansion/contraction eventually leads to it cracking.
Ferritic stainless (400 series) is better, but doesn't have the shiney look or corrosion resistance of 300 series.

If you want bling, make a plain carbon steel manifold and get it coated.

Getting it coated will probably be close to matching the cost of stainless. Well, if you get a coating which is actually capable of lasting a few years. I haven't seen much in the way of coatings which actually last though. Good old canadian winters aren't that friendly to steel or paints it seems

I understand the compromise of cracking welds and seems, its not something I want to deal with. However, there are members who apparently have had success.

 

[cody c]

the source for metals was: Unified alloys

Unified Alloys: Calgary, Alberta - Pipe fittings, Stainless Steel tubing, pipe, Parker fittings, flanges

 

[Dougal]

Getting it coated will probably be close to matching the cost of stainless. Well, if you get a coating which is actually capable of lasting a few years. I haven't seen much in the way of coatings which actually last though. Good old canadian winters aren't that friendly to steel or paints it seems

Yes but the coatings are optional. I have had zero success with paint type coatings from VHT. They start to come away by one year. Real ceramic coating is supposed to be very good for durability and slowing heat-loss. But I have never had it done.

I understand the compromise of cracking welds and seems, its not something I want to deal with. However, there are members who apparently have had success.

It's a number of cycles thing (thermal fatigue). Stainless manifolds on a turbo engine are doomed. It all depends on what life you are happy with from a manifold.

 

[cody c]

Yes but the coatings are optional. I have had zero success with paint type coatings from VHT. They start to come away by one year. Real ceramic coating is supposed to be very good for durability and slowing heat-loss. But I have never had it done.



It's a number of cycles thing (thermal fatigue). Stainless manifolds on a turbo engine are doomed. It all depends on what life you are happy with from a manifold.

I suppose the ceramic coated manifold would be the smartest way to go.

Then again I dont put a lot of miles on the 3B, so Im probably safe...

Is there any other simple ways to limit the fatigue applied to the manifold? Any thoughts on slotted holes for hardware, and maybe different hardware i.e. studs with double nuts and washers to allow some minor expansion, or a thicker manifold/head flange that would force expansion and contraction?

 

[cody c]

just put out a request for a quote for pricing in SS and A36 steel. I also asked if there was benefit to doing a larger order price wise. If there is Ill put out a quick notice for a group buy. If the pricing is high I will send the CAD drawing off to other sources.

Items Available for Purchase

Cody.

 

[chet]

unified is the place to go for stainless. for carbon I would go to Westlund. They have branches all over the place.

 

[blis]

I suppose the ceramic coated manifold would be the smartest way to go.

Then again I dont put a lot of miles on the 3B, so Im probably safe...

Is there any other simple ways to limit the fatigue applied to the manifold? Any thoughts on slotted holes for hardware, and maybe different hardware i.e. studs with double nuts and washers to allow some minor expansion, or a thicker manifold/head flange that would force expansion and contraction?

Well, if you insist on SS then i would definately go for invidual flanges for each port instead making it one piece in order to keep the warping minimal... Maybe also make every other hole a slot with open end... 8mm-12mm is the thickness I'd pick. TIG-weld it really good with consistent beads and penetration, weld it from inside...

My best quess is that if done that way it will last a decade atleast before cracking (too tired to do the math)....

 

[cody c]

Well, if you insist on SS then i would definately go for invidual flanges for each port instead making it one piece in order to keep the warping minimal... Maybe also make every other hole a slot with open end... 8mm-12mm is the thickness I'd pick. TIG-weld it really good with consistent beads and penetration, weld it from inside...

My best quess is that if done that way it will last a decade atleast before cracking (too tired to do the math)....

I woulda thought youd go a beefy one piece flange?

My thoughts are that it would expand at the same rate the rest of the manifold would, in an attempt to prevent cracking at the pipes off the welds. Kind of like the whole thing expanding together, and creating some movement at the contact surface on the cylinder head.

The downfall would be some small small movement, mostly at the edge of cylinder 1 + 4, which would tend to loosen the studs or nuts.

It seems to me that 4 single flanges would create stress at the runners and their joints. Can you expand a bit on your perspective?

A decade is more than enough for me anyway, Apparently some mayans are coming the end of the year so thats all I really need. ;p