Bridgestone or Toyos - same price (1 Viewer)

[Horvath]

I ordered a set of BFGoodrich, All Terrain T/A KO2, 285 /60 R18 for my 2017 LC with 65k miles on the original tires from Discount Tires.

See here: https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/bfgoodrich-all-terrain-t-a-ko2/

Their manager calls me up and says they no longer carry that size --- he says he can get me the same tire but less wide and slightly taller in a 275 /65 OR the Toyo OPEN COUNTRY A/T III in 285 /60 R18. Price woudl be the same.

Discount Tire | Tires and Wheels for Sale | Online & In-Person

www.discounttire.com

So -- what do you guys think?

Slightly smaller Bridgestones or the Toyos?

 

[NoClue]

AT3s are a newer design compared to the K02s. I can't comment on how the K02s are, but my AT3s have been pretty incredible in the sand, mud, snow, and every other condition.

 

[luke27617]

First of all I would go with 275/65 vs. 285/60 because you will have slightly taller tire which will make the LC proportions better and fill out fenders nicely. This is the right size if you don't want to go even one higher and deal with some small modification to avoid rubbing at lock
Unless you do serious off roading (more than dirt roads), the 275 comes in lower load tires so the comfort will be better. Go down from E load to SL.
Regarding brands..... Had K02 in D load. Great tire but definitely felt the difference moving from highway Micheling defenders (harsher ride, more bumpy, more noise).
Everyone raves on the new Toyo and supposedly they are more quiet than K02. Those have the newest tech. Those are the one I will be replacing factory Dunlops with on my 21HE in 275/65 size and SL load.

 

[TeCKis300]

This is easy IMO.

One is proven old man strength, but perhaps with some cantankerous habits.

The other is the high achieving new kid on the block that proves humanity inevitably makes progress.

 

[Chewbacca]

AT3s are a newer design compared to the K02s. I can't comment on how the K02s are, but my AT3s have been pretty incredible in the sand, mud, snow, and every other condition.

Agreed. Love my AT3s. Fantastic in snow.

 

[Dashome]

I love the AT3s, just put them on. Much better road manners than the KO2s. The local Toyota truck shop I see only carriers both of these. Food for thought... I'm assuming you want trail performance and a more aggressive look based on your KO2 order. You can fit 275/70/r18s by removing the front wind deflectors and trimming or removing the front mud flaps. I also threw on 1.25" spidertrax spacers and can confirm no rubbing. I'm beyond happy with how it turned out.

 

[40Man]

I ordered a set of BFGoodrich, All Terrain T/A KO2, 285 /60 R18 for my 2017 LC with 65k miles on the original tires from Discount Tires.

See here: https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/bfgoodrich-all-terrain-t-a-ko2/

Their manager calls me up and says they no longer carry that size --- he says he can get me the same tire but less wide and slightly taller in a 275 /65 OR the Toyo OPEN COUNTRY A/T III in 285 /60 R18. Price woudl be the same.

Discount Tire | Tires and Wheels for Sale | Online & In-Person

www.discounttire.com

So -- what do you guys think?

Slightly smaller Bridgestones or the Toyos?

Don't get the Bridgestone KO2s, pretty sure they are Chinese knock-offs.

 

[bloc]

First of all I would go with 275/65 vs. 285/60 because you will have slightly taller tire which will make the LC proportions better and fill out fenders nicely. This is the right size if you don't want to go even one higher and deal with some small modification to avoid rubbing at lock
Unless you do serious off roading (more than dirt roads), the 275 comes in lower load tires so the comfort will be better. Go down from E load to SL.
Regarding brands..... Had K02 in D load. Great tire but definitely felt the difference moving from highway Micheling defenders (harsher ride, more bumpy, more noise).
Everyone raves on the new Toyo and supposedly they are more quiet than K02. Those have the newest tech. Those are the one I will be replacing factory Dunlops with on my 21HE in 275/65 size and SL load.

285/60R18 AT3 is XL, not c/d/e rated LT. They’ll get the similar to stock ride and not give up any tread width/wheel well fill.

Personally for me this is a no-brainer. OP, run the toyo.

 

[Madtiger]

This is easy IMO.

One is proven old man strength, but perhaps with some cantankerous habits.

The other is the high achieving new kid on the block that proves humanity inevitably makes progress.

Yeah I hear that Michelin Defender is trash too because it came out at same time as KO2…….in 2015. 2015 is so yesterday! Back then, they did not have computers and CAD to design tires. BFG had to use cave drawings to design tires! Rubber back then was made of rubber too.

Every tire is design to a purpose and price point.

And KO2 LT can easily stay with the newer highway P-metric tires ON-ROAD: https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=249

Of course, off-road, you won’t find a better AT tire in terms of traction, sidewall strength, and proven racing durability. You can’t say that about a lot of the “AT” tires that compromises strength to get under a price point.

 

[bloc]

Yeah I hear that Michelin Defender is trash too because it came out at same time as KO2…….in 2015. 2015 is so yesterday! Back then, they did not have computers and CAD to design tires. BFG had to use cave drawings to design tires! Rubber back then was made of rubber too.

Every tire is design to a purpose and price point.

And KO2 LT can easily stay with the newer highway P-metric tires ON-ROAD: https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=249

Of course, off-road, you won’t find a better AT tire in terms of traction, sidewall strength, and proven racing durability. You can’t say that about a lot of the “AT” tires that compromises strength to get under a price point.

“Of course”. So where is your data to support those claims?

Your price point argument is quite interesting, considering many competitors are more expensive than the KO2 (likely because they have actual R&D costs in the last decade) and outside of the budget brands the ones that are cheaper only beat it by a few dollars per tire.

My experience with KO2s: pretty good tire, but terrible in ice, and noisier than my toyo AT2s. I’ve heard AT3s are even quieter. Terrible ride quality, though that was probably more about it only being available in LT-E in the size I needed at the time.

 

[Madtiger]

“Of course”. So where is your data to support those claims?

Your price point argument is quite interesting, considering many competitors are more expensive than the KO2 (likely because they have actual R&D costs in the last decade) and outside of the budget brands the ones that are cheaper only beat it by a few dollars per tire.

My experience with KO2s: pretty good tire, but terrible in ice, and noisier than my toyo AT2s. I’ve heard AT3s are even quieter. Terrible ride quality, though that was probably more about it only being available in LT-E in the size I needed at the time.

It has been in Baja-like races, no? I think that it won a few too. It is well-known among off-road community, no? You deny it’s durability strength? Does it not have 3-ply sidewall that is well-known to be quite strong?

So, you’re saying that BFG did not do any R&D for the KO2? Last decade…that means since 2011? KO2 came out 2015. Michelin and BFG probably are not sophisticated enough to design good tires, right? I mean, Michelin and BFG are probably on verge of bankruptcy since they apparently don’t know how to design tires!

Yeah, always a good idea to compare P-metric and LT tires and then complain about ride quality.

Sorry for being sarcastic…but your post left me scratching my head…and i don’t even have lice!

But beyond everything written, TireRack comparison above clearly shows that KO2 is pretty damn good “true” AT tire.

And i would bet that Michelin/BFG R&D budget is probably more than most other companies entire operation. But that’s just my guess….

 

[John Guedry]

I have toyo at2 on my f150 they are nice, have ko2 on my lc (barely put on) still deciding which is better.

 

[Madtiger]

I have toyo at2 on my f150 they are nice, have ko2 on my lc (barely put on) still deciding which is better.

Make sure that you make comparison b/w tires of the SAME age. That is the issue with a lot of the tire commentary/reviews (here and TireRack and Discount Tire websites) is that they are comparing a 5+ year old tire that is worn down to the bars to a brand new tire fresh off the rack. Of course the new tire is 100x better.

This is why i wish TireRack does more tire comparison (as linked above). It is so hard to find objective data to compare tires.

 

[bloc]

It has been in Baja-like races, no? I think that it won a few too. It is well-known among off-road community, no? You deny it’s durability strength? Does it not have 3-ply sidewall that is well-known to be quite strong?

So, you’re saying that BFG did not do any R&D for the KO2? Last decade…that means since 2011? KO2 came out 2015. Michelin and BFG probably are not sophisticated enough to design good tires, right? I mean, Michelin and BFG are probably on verge of bankruptcy since they apparently don’t know how to design tires!

Yeah, always a good idea to compare P-metric and LT tires and then complain about ride quality.

Sorry for being sarcastic…but your post left me scratching my head…and i don’t even have lice!

But beyond everything written, TireRack comparison above clearly shows that KO2 is pretty damn good “true” AT tire.

And i would bet that Michelin/BFG R&D budget is probably more than most other companies entire operation. But that’s just my guess…

Where's that data for your off-road superiority claims? You do realize a tire released in 2015 was most likely developed over many years before that, right? Not to mention, you sure like to make comments in jest, but when I do the same ("last decade") it seems to melt your brain.

I posted clear anecdotes about my experience with both tires, and even specified the construction difference. Thanks for repeating it.

I wouldn't (and haven't) said the KO2 is a bad tire (except in ice.. terrible).. just that other tires have clear benefits (ice, noise), and more recent development cycles..

As for race wins. So what? Are you racing in baja? Is OP? Or maybe the Baja T/A should be what we suggest? Now I'm scratching my head.


Agreed on more testing, but I see why they don't. It is time consuming, costly, and many of the things we identify as important for tire choice are subjective. Edit: and they'd have to repeat the tests over and over as new and redesigned tires enter the market

 

[Madtiger]

Where's that data for your off-road superiority claims? You do realize a tire released in 2015 was most likely developed over many years before that, right? Not to mention, you sure like to make comments in jest, but when I do the same ("last decade") it seems to melt your brain.

I posted clear anecdotes about my experience with both tires, and even specified the construction difference. Thanks for repeating it.

I wouldn't (and haven't) said the KO2 is a bad tire (except in ice.. terrible).. just that other tires have clear benefits (ice, noise), and more recent development cycles..

As for race wins. So what? Are you racing in baja? Is OP? Or maybe the Baja T/A should be what we suggest? Now I'm scratching my head.


Agreed on more testing, but I see why they don't. It is time consuming, costly, and many of the things we identify as important for tire choice are subjective. Edit: and they'd have to repeat the tests over and over as new and redesigned tires enter the market

Actually, every 2-3 months, TireRack comes out with tire comparisons/testings. I get emails from them when they come out with new reviews. You guys should sign up if not already.

Race wins etc is about showing their durability off-road. Proven design/materials for off-roading.

You mentioned last decade and R&D…i just pointed out that i am pretty sure BFG/Michelin did plenty of R&D on the KO2 design prior to 2015 release (and easily falls within that decade claim by you). Jest or not by you, what i wrote is true. Melt my brain? It seems you are the one offended by what i wrote.

 

[TeCKis300]

If this forum was focused on Baja racing, it may be a different recommendation. Maybe. The reality is most of us drive on road more than 95% of the time. Many on these boards want to buy suggestive capability but really use their tires in a different manner. Defender get a pass because they continue to prioritize NVH qualities. There are modern tires that give it all, great road manners and serious off-road chops.

Technology allows a tire to perform more broadly without diametric trades or as much compromises. That's where the AT3s excel. And so do the Falken ATW3s.

I personally choose those tires for their exceptional rain, cold, and snow performance. Solid on-road handling, ride, and comfort. While maintaining aggressive off-road capability. AT to really mean all-terrain without any weak spots.

Tirerack is benching the KO2s against second rate tires, which doesn't tell us much. With acknowledged shortcomings in things that are a priority to me.

BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A KO2(On-/Off Road All-Terrain, LT265/70R17 112/109S)

• What We Liked: It's quieter than we expected, steers better than we expected, it's good in the snow and competitive in the wet.
• What We'd Improve: LT-Metric sizing brings a stiff ride, and we would like a bit more wet traction.
• Conclusion: As the orange in our test of apples, it's high praise to say it didn't stand out.

 

[John Guedry]

Has anyone got the pep boys cooper house brand at tires? I've been wanting to try some on my ford, was apprehensive to put on the lc (went w ko2 from Costco).

 

[Madtiger]

If this forum was focused on Baja racing, it may be a different recommendation. The reality is most of us drive on road more than 95% of the time. Many on these boards want to buy suggestive capability but really use their tires in a different manner. Defender get a pass because they continue to prioritize NVH qualities.

Technology allows a tire to perform more broadly without diametric trades or as much compromises. That's where the AT3s excel. And so do the Falken ATW3s.

I personally choose those tires for their exceptional rain, cold, and snow performance. Solid on-road handling, ride, and comfort. While maintaining aggressive off-road capability. AT to really mean all-terrain without any weak spots.

Tirerack is benching the KO2s against second rate tires, which doesn't tell us much. With acknowledged shortcomings in things that are a priority to me.




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Michelin Defender of 2015 does not need a pass…it is highly rated across the board by pretty much every resource noted...beating new tires alike.

Being made in 2015 or 2021 makes no Difference.

You mentioned Falken…so, is it a “modern” tire-breakthrough technology thing to use cheap-a$$ heavy steel plies instead of high-tensile steel plies like 99% of tire industry? Or did Falken use cheap steel plies because they were cheap?

I would not call Yoko Geolander AT a 2nd rate tire…….

 

[TeCKis300]

Michelin Defender of 2015 does not need a pass…it is highly rated across the board by pretty much every resource noted...beating new tires alike.

Being made in 2015 or 2021 makes no Difference.

You mentioned Falken…so, is it a “modern” tire-breakthrough technology thing to use cheap-a$$ heavy steel plies instead of high-tensile steel plies like 99% of tire industry? Or did Falken use cheap steel plies because they were cheap?

Enjoy what you got Mad. KO2s 4ever. 46PSI FTW.

 

[bloc]

Actually, every 2-3 months, TireRack comes out with tire comparisons/testings. I get emails from them when they come out with new reviews. You guys should sign up if not already.

Race wins etc is about showing their durability off-road. Proven design/materials for off-roading.

You mentioned last decade and R&D…i just pointed out that i am pretty sure BFG/Michelin did plenty of R&D on the KO2 design prior to 2015 release (and easily falls within that decade claim by you). Jest or not by you, what i wrote is true. Melt my brain? It seems you are the one offended by what i wrote.

Then why wish for more testing? Also is Toyo's R&D not valid? They have a few baja wins under their belt as well.

Your quote: "Of course, off-road, you won’t find a better AT tire in terms of traction, sidewall strength, and proven racing durability. You can’t say that about a lot of the “AT” tires that compromises strength to get under a price point."

I simply asked for data. I didn't "deny durability strength" as you claim I did. I just asked for data to support "you won't find a better AT tire in terms of traction, sidewall strength, and proven racing durability." Some race wins could possibly count for the latter, what about the other 2? Traction and sidewall strength seem easy to quantify. Let alone evidence the other tires compromise strength to get under a price point.. that turns out isn't even a price point argument in the first place, as I pointed out above.

Waiting.