Brake Upgrade=Downgrade.... (1 Viewer)

[084runnerltd]

I recently did the axle service on my 80 and figured I would install some "expenseiveish" front brake pads while I was in there.

Short background, the pads and discs that were in the rig prior to yesterday were Powerstop ((KOE1155)....I think that whole kit costed 250.00 or so)), they only had about 5k miles on them.

I also had new brake fluid and bleed, including LSPV, done by toyota about a month ago.

Everything felt "good." Peddle was firm, brakes grabbed and stopped well.

However, I thought I would install some Hawk Superduty brake pads as I read great reviews on them. (They were 100.00 just for the front pads)

As I am finishing up the axle work, I pull out the old Powerstops, pop open the brake fluid container, squeeze back the pistons and slide in the new pads.

I bedded the brakes according to Hawk. However , now my brake peddle is much more "mushy" and goes further to the ground than it did in the past....??

The brake fluid resevoir was never near empty as I didn't drain and fluid out?? What could have happened here? Wishing I didn't do this "upgrade" and saved the money.

Thanks, as always.


...via IH8MUD app

 

[half k cruiser]

I don't think your pad selection is going to affect the feel of the brake pedal. The pads are just as hard as what you took off of there, in fact they don't have any give at all. So the "mushy" feeling your getting is probably air that somehow worked its way into the system. Try bleeding the system and see if that fixes it.

 

[Cattledog]

Did you have the discs resurfaced prior to bedding in the new pads?

 

[NLXTACY]

Did you have the discs resurfaced prior to bedding in the new pads?

X2 on this

 

[084runnerltd]

Did you have the discs resurfaced prior to bedding in the new pads?

No,.....I guess I didn't know I needed to as they were almost new and had no grooves or damage to them.....

I don't think that would cause the pedal to go down further or soften up the feel of the pedal (I have no idea, though)

I am guessing that there are very small grooves/textures from the old pads...but I think if it had any affect, it would just cause me to have worse stopping power....but not affect the pedal....???


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[250f4life]

Another vote for air in the lines. The reason you need to have your rotors turned when doing new pads is they will have a glaze on them from the old pads.

 

[084runnerltd]

Another vote for air in the lines. The reason you need to have your rotors turned when doing new pads is they will have a glaze on them from the old pads.

That makes sense regarding the "glaze."

But regarding air in the lines....all I did was pull the guide pin, pull out the brake pads and install the new ones....???

Again, the whole system was bled by toyota about a month ago. The brakes felt "normal" on Friday, then I did the work, and on Sunday they were mushy....

Maybe I should check for leaks....I guess it is possible I damaged a break line when working on the axle service.....??

 

[Cattledog]

Sounds like the rotors are glazed. Have the rotors turned or get new rotors. Lightly file the pads or go new and re-bed. If you never opened the system and all was good prior to the new pads then I bet there is no air in the system.

 

[084runnerltd]

During break in I never got the "burning brake smell".....is it possible that I didn't heat them up enough to bed them?? Especially since they are the "heavy duty" pads??

But I guess properly "bedded" or not, that shouldn't affect the pedal.

Also, how does a glazed rotor suddenly make the pedal softer?

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[NLXTACY]

The glazing is preventing maximum grip. You have to have an environment where both the rotor and the pad are matched to each other, thus the bedding. It will feel soft because its not grabbing the way you expect. I made this mistake on my 60. I just replaced the pads and ignored the rotor because it was a Sunday and I coudn't get them turned. All week I had soft brakes til I had them turned the following Sat.

 

[tomcat]

you need to do both. but i think you have air in the system .

 

[Howard705]

Leave the rotors alone-have put new pads on them 100s times-just takes a little longer for them to wear in. They will be back the same way after a few thousand miles. You said you did axle service-jack back up and make sure nothing is cocked/stuck/loose/misaligned-like wheel bearings loose letting pistons come out further than they should as they "push" other parts back into place-it doesn't take much. If not bleed again.

 

[scrowley]

^^^^^ what Howard said. Give them a little time. After 5k you shouldn't need a turn on rotors. It's ideal but not necessary. Did you happen to get any grease or other on rotors. This will contaminate rotor and give squshy feel. Check wheel bearing tightness. Bed the pads in again. I do highway. 60 mph. Brake hard to 10 mph. Then repeat with cooling time in between each.

 

[iwashmycar]

Also if you didnt spray down the new pads with BrakeKleen or whatever there may be some residue to burn off. May just take some time as others said.

I have Powerstop pads on both my trucks and they have been nice. Lots of bite. The rotors are junk though (at least mine were)

 

[LandBruiser69]

Good info here... Im glad I read this. Im getting ready to do pads. Ive never had this problem in the past though...

 

[084runnerltd]

I have done nothing other than put more miles on the rig. The pedal is firming up. Still a little softer than before, but definite improvement.

No increase in stopping power that i had imagined/hoped for.....maybe that will get better in time as well...


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[Qball]

Have you try to activate your abs? You definitely have a bit of air in your line and activating the abs helps with any bubble in the abs system which can't really be bled with normal method.

Activate abs a dozen times helped me with my brakes quite a bit.


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[thatvan]

I'm not sure why some of you guys are saying that he has air in his system. He changed the pads but never opened the system to introduce air.

It seems to me that you have improper or ineffective bedding of the pads and/or you purchased pads that have lower "cold bite".

For proper bedding of brakes see http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm

Brake pad material can have an enormous effect on brake peddle feel.

See here for a good brake down of pad materials:http://www.essexparts.com/learning-center/cat/brake-pads/post/choose-brake-pads

 

[084runnerltd]

I'm not sure why some of you guys are saying that he has air in his system. He changed the pads but never opened the system to introduce air.

It seems to me that you have improper or ineffective bedding of the pads and/or you purchased pads that have lower "cold bite".

For proper bedding of brakes see http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm

Brake pad material can have an enormous effect on brake peddle feel.

See here for a good brake down of pad materials:http://www.essexparts.com/learning-center/cat/brake-pads/post/choose-brake-pads

Thank you (regarding air in the system comment), I was getting more and more confused as more people said that I have air in the system.


Anyway, I "re-bedded" today...brake pedal is at acceptable firmness, still not as firm, but good enough for me.

The bedding process I used was less intense than what you linked to. What I found, on a quick mobile search after installing the pads was something similar to: Accelerate to 30-35mph, apply brakes with moderate pressure 5-7 times. Then accelerate to 60mph and brake hard 3-4 times (without coming to a complete stop.) Let cool for 15minutes.

I have still yet to get the burning smell that I have gotten when bedding past brakes. Based on your link and a comment above, I am going to try a more thorough bedding process as the "Super-duty" pads seem to have a harder time heating up. (During normal use, obviously a good thing, but it makes it difficult when trying to bed them)


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[half k cruiser]

Ahh yes, bedding. Usually done in the pre dawn on some lonely highway. I'm always worried some cop is gonna pull me over. Ever tried explaining a mechanical anything to a cop ? " Uh well officer, you see, I uh, I put these new brakes on and now I have to bed them in properly ". Cop : " Really, and they won't work if you don't bed them " ? " Well, yes, but not as well, and, uh..... " Cop : " Here's your ticket "