Brake repair questions (1 Viewer)

[Pygmalion]

We need pix.

Honestly, being able to 'see' what you're doing will make it so much easier to diagnose than trying to guess.

For now, though, my guess is the rear drums still need the shoes adjusted. Your brake pedal is going all the way to the floor because the cylinders are using up all the fluid in the lines but not encountering the resistance of the shoes hitting the drums, which would firm up the pedal at the bottom of the throw.

 

[badass]

Ok, first i want to say thanks to all of those who have helped. I wish it was over but sadly it's not, i got all of the brake cylinders adjusted to the point that each side barely drags on the drum. But the pedal still sinks to the floor and brakes barley work. Now here is thing that got me thinking, i pumped the pedal and on the 3rd pump, I HAD BRAKES. On the 3rd pump i could make the rig practically lock up. I don't have any leaks in the brake lines that i can see. I'm thinking it is the brake booster, maybe a vaccum leak or booster is bad. It was working fine before. One more thing whenever i press the brakes the idle sorta drops, but a very subtle drop. Definatly a vaccum leak, i'm screwed. Where do i look?

 

[Cruiserdrew]

If it pumps up. it's probably still in the brakes, not in the booster. The booster probably is bad, but the pedal should get more firm, not less. That rear adjustment is key. Make certain 100% sure that it's right. The fronts will self adjust, so it they are properly bled, it should be fine. I would still suspect the CCoT wheel cylinders, and you should look carefully at the master.

Do you have a FSM? There is an easy procedure for checking the brake booster. Is your booster the tandem booster? If so, you are screwed, since even the rebuild parts are no longer available.

 

[my64fj40]

Ok, first i want to say thanks to all of those who have helped. I wish it was over but sadly it's not, i got all of the brake cylinders adjusted to the point that each side barely drags on the drum. But the pedal still sinks to the floor and brakes barley work. Now here is thing that got me thinking, i pumped the pedal and on the 3rd pump, I HAD BRAKES. On the 3rd pump i could make the rig practically lock up. I don't have any leaks in the brake lines that i can see. I'm thinking it is the brake booster, maybe a vaccum leak or booster is bad. It was working fine before. One more thing whenever i press the brakes the idle sorta drops, but a very subtle drop. Definatly a vaccum leak, i'm screwed. Where do i look?

Double check the adjustment on the wheel cylinders. If those are okay, you probably have a lot of air in the lines still. I just got done doing my brakes today, and if the booster isn't getting vacuum, you should be getting a firm pedal much quicker. You may want to bled the M.C. if you haven't already. I would also look very hard for leaks somewhere, since it could be sucking in air from there.

 

[badass]

I didn't clarify sorry, the pedal is still soft, however each time i pump it, it gets harder and harder. I am 100% i have bled and adjusted the rear correctly. I already know the test for checking the brake booster, i believe you hold your foot on the brake pedal with the engine off, then start it, and the pedal is supposed to got farther down?

 

[my64fj40]

I didn't clarify sorry, the pedal is still soft, however each time i pump it, it gets harder and harder. I am 100% i have bled and adjusted the rear correctly. I already know the test for checking the brake booster, i believe you hold your foot on the brake pedal with the engine off, then start it, and the pedal is supposed to got farther down?

Yes, I know. Mine was the same exact way until I completely bled it and adjusted it correctly.

 

[Spud]

My guess after reading these post is that you have to bleed it again, still some air in the lines.

 

[Gundy]

I'd bet if you adjust each rear cylinder out until you can't turn the
wheel by hand, rather than just get it rubbing, then back off 2-3 clicks
on the adjuster you will see improved pedal.
Adjusting the cylinders to rub like you might for other drum brake
vehicles just doesn't seem to work on these Cruisers. Just my experience.
Results may vary.

 

[badass]

I just don't understand, on the 3rd pump the brakes are amazing, 10 times better than before i changed everything. So i doubt the problem is adjusting, everytime i have somone push the pedal, i crack the bleeder screw and fluid shoots out meaning it is properly bled.

 

[Pygmalion]

Air bubbles in your brake lines tend to travel upward, back toward the master cylinder, so you wouldn't immediately see the bubbles. You'll need to bleed them a lot, not just a quick check to see if there's fluid there.

Here's an excerpt on how to bleed the brakes from the Toyota FSM:

1. Remove the dirt from the area around the top of the master cylinder, and fill the master cylinder with clean brake fluid, and keep the reservoir at least half full of fluid at all times during the operation.

2. Remove the bleeder plug cap from the bleeder plug of the wheel cylinder, and connect a vinyl tube to the plug.
Submerge the other end of the tube into a container half filled with clean brake fluid.

3. Depress the brake pedal slowly several times to bleed the air, and with the brake pedal depressed, loosen the bleeder plug 1/3 to 1/2 of a turn, then close the plug immediately.

4. Repeat this operation until the brake fluid flows into the container without any trace of air.

Do this on all four points on the rear brakes, and also on the front calipers. Hope that helps you get this figured out.

 

[badass]

Ok will bleed again, another thing, is it all right if i reuse the brake fluid that dumps into the bottle? It is all new fluid. Also, what do you mean all four points, there are only two in the rear.

 

[Pin_Head]

I wish it was over but sadly it's not, i got all of the brake cylinders adjusted to the point that each side barely drags on the drum. But the pedal still sinks to the floor and brakes barley work. Now here is thing that got me thinking, i pumped the pedal and on the 3rd pump, I HAD BRAKES. Where do i look?

It is not a bleeding issue.

They still are not adjusted properly. They are not tight enough.

You tighten each adjuster individually UNTIL YOU CAN'T TURN THE WHEEL and then back off 3 clicks.

You have to tighten until it locks to center the shoe. The shoes will drag with the brakes way out of adjsutment unless you tighten them all the way first.

HTH

 

[Gundy]

I just don't understand, on the 3rd pump the brakes are amazing, 10 times better than before i changed everything. So i doubt the problem is adjusting, everytime i have somone push the pedal, i crack the bleeder screw and fluid shoots out meaning it is properly bled.

Doubt all ya want but until you follow the cylinder adjusting advice
you've been given you are NOT going to have a full pedal.
Count on it.
Pinhead told ya once, I repeated it and Pinhead told ya twice.
Humor us and give it a try.

 

[badass]

I will try again when i get home around 4. I'll let you guys know.

 

[71/monarch]

I've got say " I'm happy with my adjustment". I adjusted my brakes over the weekend, the front driver side drum need to be turned though. Although I'm sure I screwed up the procedure considering I was to stubborned to take the time and buy the brake adjusting tool. What can I say " I save ever little penny for my Cruiser", I know I know , the tool is probably a good invest too but one day I'll buy one.
I didn't have any luck with adjust from the back with a screw driver so I pulled the drum, made the adj. from the front until I could barely get the drum back on, then made one last click from the back because thats all I could manage from the back opening. I'm not recommending this procedure at all I'm just wanted to enforce the fact that once I was done with the adjustments I had great response from my pedal. No more double pump with a great braking response at half way depressed. I thought I need to do a whole overhaul with my brakes when all I need was an adjustment for the most part. (always thinking the worst case scenario)

 

[Pighead]

You are correct, badass, there ARE only 2 bleeders on the rear. Good eyes.
But, you still need to adjust more. Tighten the brakes all the way. Both sides. So tight that you can't turn the wheel with both hands. When you get to the point where you cannot turn either rear wheel with both hands on one wheel....push on the brake pedal hard. Use both feet even. It should hardly move (if the front calipers are mounted). It should be rock-hard. If it is not, you must fix that. Do not worry about the booster, do not worry about your idle. These are secondary to a rock-hard brake pedal. You must attain a rock-hard brake pedal before you go on to the next step. The only way to get a rock-hard brake pedal is to get ALL the air out of the system. It's that simple.
If you ever ran the master cylinder dry during all this bleeding, you should bleed it first.
I never reuse brake fluid after bleeding it out, even the new stuff. I suppose it might be possible if the nipples, tubing and catch bottle were spotlessly clean before you started. But I would never recommend it.

Ok will bleed again, another thing, is it all right if i reuse the brake fluid that dumps into the bottle? It is all new fluid. Also, what do you mean all four points, there are only two in the rear.

 

[jmylie]

I had a similar problem with my 55 once. Air trapped in the rear wheel cylinders.

Must have gone through 2 gallons of brake fluid ( I do not reuse it either) and 2 M/C. I had help from friends with experience, still no luck. Took it to a trusted mechanic and he had problems. This is what he finally figured out.

You may have to remove the rear wheel cylinders and bench bleed them first. The issue is the way they are positioned, vertical instead of horizontal. Air can become trapped above the bleeder valve.

You can try to adjust them all the way in and bleed them to remove the trapped air. Then adjust them out and bleed again to firm up the pedal. If this fails, remove the wheel cylinders and bench bleed them and re-install.

Also, if your M/C is old, put a small block of wood under the brake pedal to keep the pedal from going all the way to the floor when bleeding. Sometimes you can score the seal on the M/C and need to replace that as well.

To confirm it is just your rear brakes, remove and plug the rear line from your M/C and see if the pedal is firm. This would confirm that the fronts are ok.

Don't forget to start by bleeding the rear brake furthest from the M/C, usually the drivers side rear.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Badass-any chance you got the cylinders in wrong positions? Make sure the bleeder screw is at the top of each wheel cylinder not the bottom.

Pinhead is right, though. You really do have to adjust them tight the first time and back off a bit. Then bleed.

I would never reuse a cheap substance like brake fluid in a critical and expensive application. Bleed with freshly opened brake fluid.

 

[Pin_Head]

Doubt all ya want but until you follow the cylinder adjusting advice
you've been given you are NOT going to have a full pedal.
Count on it.
Pinhead told ya once, I repeated it and Pinhead told ya twice.
Humor us and give it a try.

Or you could just buy the factory service manual and read it.

 

[Pighead]

Or you could buy the factory service manual and just look at the pictures.

Or you could just buy the factory service manual and read it.