Brake Problems (and coincidence/foul play?) (1 Viewer)

[hobbadehoy]

Hi all, I've been checking existing threads but it seems like there are a lot of factors in brake issues.

My situation:

After accelerating for a period of time, even 15 seconds or so, the brakes take 2 pumps before they engage, they engage normally until I accelerate again, however they feel very rough like if abs wasn't engaging on a newer car. Additionally, the ride has become very bumpy/rough and there is "burnt rubber" smell coming from the rear wheels.

The rear drums were fully replaced over the summer by a local shop back in my hometown, these issues began today. I don't think there is air in the system as the brakes were placed over 3 months ago. I don't see any leaking from any of the lines.

HOWEVER, last week I took my car to get undercoated and inspected. they did a good job with the undercoating but failed me for inspection. They were both very strict and actually lied about at least 2 "issues" with my car. I don't think they intentionally messed anything up, but I also had to replace my power steering line over the weekend after I went to that shop.

TLDR: Brakes take 2 pumps to engage and when they do they are very "rough". The ride is also rough and feels like it's from the rear axle/wheels (resistance), there is also a burnt rubber smell coming from the rear wheels. No visible leaks of brake fluid. Potentially multiple problems at play?

 

[Seth S]

I'd start by checking your master cylinder reservoir level and fluid color. Next I'd probably put the truck up on jack stands, pull the wheels and inspect all the brakes. Front look at the rotors and pads. look at the brake lines and make sure nothing got damaged or crushed or bent. Do the same in the rear. See if the drums spin smoothly. Have someone press the brake pedals and see if the drums lock up.

its possible something happened at the shop you used or its possible that your brake master is failing. A general inspection is a good low cost way to start

 

[cps432]

Sounds like you may be having a problem with the rear drums over adjusting themselves. Also sounds like you have air or water in the brake lines. I would say it’s likely time to go through and replace everything. Especially if it’s all original. Seriously, driving these trucks with sketchy brakes is... well sketchy...

 

[hobbadehoy]

Drums and front discs are less than 6 months old. The fluid level is stable. Wouldn't air in the system have caused these problems much earlier? It's definitely worth taking a look as you suggest.

 

[cps432]

Drums and front discs are less than 6 months old. The fluid level is stable. Wouldn't air in the system have caused these problems much earlier? It's definitely worth taking a look as you suggest.

Brake fluid is hygroscopic meaning it will absorb water if given exposure to it. That can happen slowly if you’ve got a leak in the reservoir cap or something like that. There are ways for air/water to enter the system. Check your pads and rotors and try bleeding the system again. Heck do a full flush. Have you replaced the brake booster and master cylinder? If those are going out it could certainly present with the problems you’re having.

 

[cps432]

Also, when you bleed the brakes start with the rear driver’s side. A lot of vehicles start on the rear passenger side, but if you follow the brake lines the furthest from the MC is actually the driver’s side. If you do it backwards you could be leaving air in the line in the rear.

 

[FJACS]

I’d guess the brake pads and shoes are contaminated with the undercoating oil.

 

[Seth S]

I’d guess the brake pads and shoes are contaminated with the undercoating oil.

This

 

[hobbadehoy]

I’d guess the brake pads and shoes are contaminated with the undercoating oil.

I was thinking that myself, but I'm consistently getting 2 pumps without braking and the third pump brakes. And then the resistance in the rear wheels seems counter-intuitive to what oil would do. Obviously I'll have to pull the wheels off and take a look, hopefully I can make it to the hardware store and back with some jack-stands :/ it's tough when you dont have a lot of tools/experience/money

 

[cps432]

I was thinking that myself, but I'm consistently getting 2 pumps without braking and the third pump brakes. And then the resistance in the rear wheels seems counter-intuitive to what oil would do. Obviously I'll have to pull the wheels off and take a look, hopefully I can make it to the hardware store and back with some jack-stands :/ it's tough when you dont have a lot of tools/experience/money

Welcome to it. You’re not the only one.

 

[Seth S]

I was thinking that myself, but I'm consistently getting 2 pumps without braking and the third pump brakes. And then the resistance in the rear wheels seems counter-intuitive to what oil would do. Obviously I'll have to pull the wheels off and take a look, hopefully I can make it to the hardware store and back with some jack-stands :/ it's tough when you dont have a lot of tools/experience/money

No need to go buy a bunch of stuff. I’m assuming you have a flash light or a smart phone with a flash light app. Also if you have the stock wheels....just look through the gaps in the wheel at the rotor surface and at your pad thickness. Might take a minute to see it but at least you can get an idea if there is residue on there. Then with all 4 on the ground but truck off, in gear and parking brake set on flat ground....crawl underneath and eyeball all the brake lines. Front and rear.

if you have a big block of wood beam or a cinder lock etc you can jack one corner up and put the objects under the frame on that side. Lower the stock bottle jack so the truck is mostly resting on your support objects. Then take the whee off. Easier if you break all the lug nuts free on the ground then jack it up. When you do this for each wheel see if they spin freely or if they drag (hard to turn).

also how well is your parking brake working?

the multiple pumps sounds like a hydraulic issue...like master going bad or fluid bad.

my 2 cents. Or maybe I’m up to 3.5

 

[duncanrm]

Another thing to add to your list of things to check is your front wheel bearings.. if they are really loose they can result in the caliper pistons being pushed back into the caliper.. it takes a pump or two to get them back into contact with the rotors. Jack up the vehicle at the front and physically check for movement in your rims.

 

[hobbadehoy]

also how well is your parking brake working?

So my right side rear p-brake lever is seized in the "open" position. The left rear is operable. Do the front wheels also have p-brake levers? I used it the other day to check the back up lights and didn't have issues after that.

It probably needs a good flush and hose replacement, could certainly be the master cylinder too, I have no Idea how old that Is. I've had my 62 for about 1.5 years. I'm most perplexed by the vibration/resistance from the wheels. Could be a wheel bearing, or wheel cylinder, or contact between drums and shoes (haha! what fun!) thankfully I have a pretty open schedule at the moment!

Thanks for the suggestions all, I'll update things as they are discovered.

 

[hobbadehoy]

my 2 cents. Or maybe I’m up to 3.5

you and cps432 are up to about $1.00!!

Also, how has having an LC in the northeast fared for you? Mine survived it's first NY winter relatively unscathed, but long term, I'm worried (at least in NY with all of the damn salt we use!)

 

[Seth S]

you and cps432 are up to about $1.00!!

Also, how has having an LC in the northeast fared for you? Mine survived it's first NY winter relatively unscathed, but long term, I'm worried (at least in NY with all of the damn salt we use!)

great! But I hide it inside all winter and avoid road salt at all cost.

 

[FJACS]

I was thinking that myself, but I'm consistently getting 2 pumps without braking and the third pump brakes. And then the resistance in the rear wheels seems counter-intuitive to what oil would do. Obviously I'll have to pull the wheels off and take a look, hopefully I can make it to the hardware store and back with some jack-stands :/ it's tough when you dont have a lot of tools/experience/money

If the border wasn’t closed, you could swing by my side of the river and we could sort it out. Keep that in mind for the future. I’m about 10-15 minutes from the Lewiston Bridge.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

you and cps432 are up to about $1.00!!

Also, how has having an LC in the northeast fared for you? Mine survived it's first NY winter relatively unscathed, but long term, I'm worried (at least in NY with all of the damn salt we use!)

Don’t drive it in the winter or you’ll be learning to do this in a handful of years...
Both rear frame rails, inside and out. Directed how to get it done by a few here on mud.

 

[gbogh]

Since you have a 62, I'm pretty sure you have a Load Sensing Proportioning valve (search "LSPV") which can also give you some trouble. If you bleed your brakes, make sure to bleed it first, it's the little doohickey with a bleed screw near your rear axle with a few brake lines coming & going out of it & a long rod that articulates with the rear axle. HTH

 

[Seth S]

Don’t drive it in the winter or you’ll be learning to do this in a handful of years...
Both rear frame rails, inside and out. Directed how to get it done by a few here on mud.

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All I see is incentive to do the 80 frame swap

@NeverGiveUpYota I have a pretty clean 80 chassis stripped waiting for use. If you want to go that route

 

[60Works]

Oil (from undercoating contamination, a brake fluid leak from the cylinder, or gear oil from a leaking axle seal) will cause the shoes to swell.
This will cause them to rub and wear even if they were previously adjusted correctly.
This will cause the drum to overheat.
Overheating will cause the drum to warp.
A warped drum will cause shuddering.

A stuck park brake bell crank will cause similar issues; including rapidly worn shoes which won't auto adjust. Lack of auto adjust will result in needing to pump the pedal to get braking.

Previously offered advice is good. You need to thoroughly go through your entire braking system and check everything again. Braking is too important to neglect.