What's the best brake conversion kit to use on a 1990 FJ62? Just wondering what everyone is having success with.
Thanks
JB
Thanks
JB
Brake Conversion (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter jimi5Stone
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
How modified are you willing to go? 80 series rear axle with front axle Tundra brake mod
The improvement in braking with the 4 wheel discs over stock 60 series is very noticeable. I've been in a couple of situations on the road lately where having this upgraded braking system allowed me to avoid hitting someone that pulled out in front of me whereas if I had had the stock setup there would have been an accident.
There's a lot of well intended but incorrect information posted in old threads.
The short version:
The 4 Runner caliper mod does not improve braking.
The 4 Runner master mod reduces braking.
The 4 Runner booster has the same boost as the '89 FJ-62.
If your brake system is functioning perfectly with good pads, it is adequate for 33" tires and reasonable loading.
The weak link in the system is the rotor size. Unless the rotor is upgraded, none of the other 'improvements' work.
The only way to increase rotor size is to change out nearly everything. @Godwin 's thread is a great way to truly modernize your 62's brakes. It requires changing:
Rotors
calipers
dust shields
adding FROR brackets
master
flex lines
hubs
wheels (at least 16")
If want to retain a stock look, you will have to resign yourself to mediocre braking.
forum.ih8mud.com
The short version:
The 4 Runner caliper mod does not improve braking.
The 4 Runner master mod reduces braking.
The 4 Runner booster has the same boost as the '89 FJ-62.
If your brake system is functioning perfectly with good pads, it is adequate for 33" tires and reasonable loading.
The weak link in the system is the rotor size. Unless the rotor is upgraded, none of the other 'improvements' work.
The only way to increase rotor size is to change out nearly everything. @Godwin 's thread is a great way to truly modernize your 62's brakes. It requires changing:
Rotors
calipers
dust shields
adding FROR brackets
master
flex lines
hubs
wheels (at least 16")
If want to retain a stock look, you will have to resign yourself to mediocre braking.
Brake Upgrade - The Tundra Mod
Hello All, Here are some specifics for performing the Front Range Off Road (FROR) Tundra brake mod on the front axle of a 60 Series Land Cruiser. This combination of master/caliper seems perfectly balanced with pedal travel, feel, and response. Braking performance is a huge improvement over...
forum.ih8mud.com
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #5
Dude! This as extremely helpful. ThanksThere's a lot of well intended but incorrect information posted in old threads.
The short version:
The 4 Runner caliper mod does not improve braking.
The 4 Runner master mod reduces braking.
The 4 Runner booster has the same boost as the '89 FJ-62.
If your brake system is functioning perfectly with good pads, it is adequate for 33" tires and reasonable loading.
The weak link in the system is the rotor size. Unless the rotor is upgraded, none of the other 'improvements' work.
The only way to increase rotor size is to change out nearly everything. @Godwin 's thread is a great way to truly modernize your 62's brakes. It requires changing:
Rotors
calipers
dust shields
adding FROR brackets
master
flex lines
hubs
wheels (at least 16")
If want to retain a stock look, you will have to resign yourself to mediocre braking.
Brake Upgrade - The Tundra Mod
Hello All, Here are some specifics for performing the Front Range Off Road (FROR) Tundra brake mod on the front axle of a 60 Series Land Cruiser. This combination of master/caliper seems perfectly balanced with pedal travel, feel, and response. Braking performance is a huge improvement over...
- Thread starter
- #6
Excuse my ignorance, so do you have to change out the axel in order to modernize your brakes. Or was that just the route you went? Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my questions.
Lots of answers, lots of paths.
The first answer is simply to make sure your stock system is up to snuff. New rotors, Pads, Wheel cylinders, drums, shoe kit and hardware, proper bleed and fresh fluid is a great first step. Assuming the master cylinder is working well and your stock booster is ok you should be good to go. If you have a bigger engine, are towing a lot of weight, or running bigger tires and driving aggressively then you might be stepping outside the capability of the stock brakes.
An 80 rear axle is a complete swap. Front knuckle conversions might be based on the stock 60 axle.
If you do the 'Tundra Mod' to the front axle, it widens the stance by 3 1/4". This requires changing the wheel backspacing to match; from 3 3/8" to 4 1/2".
This backspacing doesn't work on the rear axle. Since you want all 4 wheels to match you have to compensate. This requires running 1 1/2" wheel spacers (a little sketchy but few reported issues) or changing the rear axle with an FJ-80. This is ideal because it corrects axle width and back spacing as well as adding rear wheel disks. The only downsides (other than significant cost and effort) are that the 80's park brake is crappy and you lose the sway bar.
HTH
This backspacing doesn't work on the rear axle. Since you want all 4 wheels to match you have to compensate. This requires running 1 1/2" wheel spacers (a little sketchy but few reported issues) or changing the rear axle with an FJ-80. This is ideal because it corrects axle width and back spacing as well as adding rear wheel disks. The only downsides (other than significant cost and effort) are that the 80's park brake is crappy and you lose the sway bar.
HTH
Last edited:
I was looking into this myself. Didn't want to replace the rear axle. What about just converting the rear drums to disc with one of these conversion kits?
Just a thought if anyone's thinking about swapping in an 80 front: Trail Tailor makes coil buckets and control arm links that are ready to weld on, so you could get front coils out of the deal while you're at it.
If you did the rear, too, you'd fix the width mismatch, be able to run normally-available backspaced wheels, and get rear disks. Oh, and the possibility of getting factory e-lockers.
If you did the rear, too, you'd fix the width mismatch, be able to run normally-available backspaced wheels, and get rear disks. Oh, and the possibility of getting factory e-lockers.
a nice way to get a coil 60, disk brakes all around without having to do a full frame conversion.
Just thinking out loud, but I'm no expert and welcome anybody's opinion . . .
Like everyone else, I would like a little more stop from my FJ 62. I am running 33 x 10.50's and some added weight. I occasionally pull a small +/1 200lb trailer, and like others, I sometimes dream of engine swaps. Every now and then I get in a more modern car, or even a less modern car (1972 CJ5) and get reminded that much better braking can be had.
(1) I know there are other factors (caliper size, master cyl size, booster, etc...) but the rotor diameter seems to me to be the biggest factor in how much you are going to get. The 80 front disk (12.24") and the Tundra front (12.26") are both about an inch larger than the FJ 62 front (11.26"), but wouldn't you get even more benefit from the Redline BB kit ("13.3")?
Stock FJ 62 rotors = 11.26"
Stock FZJ 80 rotors = 12.24" (8.8% larger than stock)
Tundra Front rotors ( Power Stop p/n 1PST JBR935XPR ) = 12.55" (11.4% larger than stock)
Redline Big Brake Kit = 13.3" (18.1% larger than stock).
(2) The rear disks in the 80 (or aftermarket kits) may be an improvement in daily driving, but do so at the cost of a better parking brake, and I am not convinced they significantly improve panic braking. - I have a H55 in my 62 and use the parking brake all the time. Mine works great. The people driving stock 80s don't complain about the parking brake, but they also don't really use it (at least in the US) without the transmission in "P". People who have put 80 series disks in a manual truck seem less enthusiastic about the 80-series parking brake.
(3) Given that the tundra and Redline mods both upgrade the size of the front rotors, and most of the panic braking benefit is from the front (perhaps all if your LSPV is functioning - i.e. the stock 60 series drums are strong enough that Toyota engineers decided they needed to use an LSPV to reduce the braking force to the rear to prevent lock up in a panic stop, but they did that math assuming 28 inch tires. Is it a good idea to remove the LSPV is you go to larger tires?). Would I get 90% or more of the panic braking benefit by just doing the front, and also get to keep my stronger parking brake by leaving the rear alone?
Then there's the Redline Big Brake kit. More expensive, but much bigger rotors. It is to the tundra brakes what they are to the stock 60-series brakes, and should give significantly better front braking than the tundra mod, but at that point am I so out of balance that I have to go to rear disks to keep the system in balance with the new master and booster? or can I just put in an adjustable proportioning valve and keep my rear brakes and effective parking brake?
I've got 17" taco wheels in the shed that I'll put on anyway, and I'm not at all scared of spacers if I am the one installing and torqueing them. I also have a ARB in the rear that won't fit a 80-series full float rear. So I don't want to lose that, but I use the parking brakes a lot more often than I use the locker, so that's really less important to me than the parking brake.
The way I envision it in my head is this: poor -> adequate -> good-> Better -> Best
Stock FJ62
Normal driving: adequate
Panic Braking: adequate
Parking Brake: good
Tundra or 80 Fr/stock rear
Normal driving: good
Panic Braking: good
Parking Brake: good
Tundra or 80 Fr/rear disk :
Normal driving: Better
Panic Braking: good
Parking Brake: poor
Redline front/stock rear?
Normal driving: Better
Panic Braking: Better
Parking Brake: good
Redline front/rear disk
Normal driving: Best
Panic Braking: Best
Parking Brake: poor
The sweet spot (for me) looks like the Redline kit with stock rear drums with the LSPV removed. There is also a strong case for an 80 front axle swap to get the bigger brakes, coils, etc.... but that's more major surgery than I can sign up for right now.
Like everyone else, I would like a little more stop from my FJ 62. I am running 33 x 10.50's and some added weight. I occasionally pull a small +/1 200lb trailer, and like others, I sometimes dream of engine swaps. Every now and then I get in a more modern car, or even a less modern car (1972 CJ5) and get reminded that much better braking can be had.
(1) I know there are other factors (caliper size, master cyl size, booster, etc...) but the rotor diameter seems to me to be the biggest factor in how much you are going to get. The 80 front disk (12.24") and the Tundra front (12.26") are both about an inch larger than the FJ 62 front (11.26"), but wouldn't you get even more benefit from the Redline BB kit ("13.3")?
Stock FJ 62 rotors = 11.26"
Stock FZJ 80 rotors = 12.24" (8.8% larger than stock)
Tundra Front rotors ( Power Stop p/n 1PST JBR935XPR ) = 12.55" (11.4% larger than stock)
Redline Big Brake Kit = 13.3" (18.1% larger than stock).
(2) The rear disks in the 80 (or aftermarket kits) may be an improvement in daily driving, but do so at the cost of a better parking brake, and I am not convinced they significantly improve panic braking. - I have a H55 in my 62 and use the parking brake all the time. Mine works great. The people driving stock 80s don't complain about the parking brake, but they also don't really use it (at least in the US) without the transmission in "P". People who have put 80 series disks in a manual truck seem less enthusiastic about the 80-series parking brake.
(3) Given that the tundra and Redline mods both upgrade the size of the front rotors, and most of the panic braking benefit is from the front (perhaps all if your LSPV is functioning - i.e. the stock 60 series drums are strong enough that Toyota engineers decided they needed to use an LSPV to reduce the braking force to the rear to prevent lock up in a panic stop, but they did that math assuming 28 inch tires. Is it a good idea to remove the LSPV is you go to larger tires?). Would I get 90% or more of the panic braking benefit by just doing the front, and also get to keep my stronger parking brake by leaving the rear alone?
Then there's the Redline Big Brake kit. More expensive, but much bigger rotors. It is to the tundra brakes what they are to the stock 60-series brakes, and should give significantly better front braking than the tundra mod, but at that point am I so out of balance that I have to go to rear disks to keep the system in balance with the new master and booster? or can I just put in an adjustable proportioning valve and keep my rear brakes and effective parking brake?
I've got 17" taco wheels in the shed that I'll put on anyway, and I'm not at all scared of spacers if I am the one installing and torqueing them. I also have a ARB in the rear that won't fit a 80-series full float rear. So I don't want to lose that, but I use the parking brakes a lot more often than I use the locker, so that's really less important to me than the parking brake.
The way I envision it in my head is this: poor -> adequate -> good-> Better -> Best
Stock FJ62
Normal driving: adequate
Panic Braking: adequate
Parking Brake: good
Tundra or 80 Fr/stock rear
Normal driving: good
Panic Braking: good
Parking Brake: good
Tundra or 80 Fr/rear disk :
Normal driving: Better
Panic Braking: good
Parking Brake: poor
Redline front/stock rear?
Normal driving: Better
Panic Braking: Better
Parking Brake: good
Redline front/rear disk
Normal driving: Best
Panic Braking: Best
Parking Brake: poor
The sweet spot (for me) looks like the Redline kit with stock rear drums with the LSPV removed. There is also a strong case for an 80 front axle swap to get the bigger brakes, coils, etc.... but that's more major surgery than I can sign up for right now.
Last edited:
Keep in mind you might need to change your master cylinder and brake booster in order to clamp the bigger brakes without applying excessive force to the brake pedal...or you might reach a point where you need to alter the mechanical advantage of the brake pedal.
I would enjoy reading a thread about the Redline kit. Pretty sure no one has done one.
The 80 front axle has the small differential. Torfab and Trail Tailor both have kits to install 80 coils and axles on a 60. Torfab also has a kit to mod a 60 front axle to work with 80 coils. Best of all worlds but to do it all, very expensive.
I have no complaints about the 60 drums. An 80 rear axle is to get the added width to match the front without spacers.
With the Tundra front disks I don't feel the need for more braking. This is on an HJ-61 loaded heavy with bumpers, sliders, drawers, and gear.
The 80 front axle has the small differential. Torfab and Trail Tailor both have kits to install 80 coils and axles on a 60. Torfab also has a kit to mod a 60 front axle to work with 80 coils. Best of all worlds but to do it all, very expensive.
I have no complaints about the 60 drums. An 80 rear axle is to get the added width to match the front without spacers.
With the Tundra front disks I don't feel the need for more braking. This is on an HJ-61 loaded heavy with bumpers, sliders, drawers, and gear.
No pedal changes are necessary. Seth is talking about pedal travel and pedal force required (change in mechanical advantage) between the various Toyota master cylinders and boosters which will bolt on. Master piston diameter must be matched with caliper diameter. Or, stated differently, the volume of fluid pushed by one stroke of the master must remain proportionate to the volume of fluid needed by the calipers. This is why most 'upgrade' threads suggest matching donor components. i.e. the 4Runner caliper mod is best when the 4Runner master is changed at the same time. Toyota's engineers have these ratios mapped out.
The Tundra mod is a matched set of swaps. Whether someone measured everything and did the math or it was trial and error experimentation; I couldn't say. The result is good.
Hey 60Works, just picked up the FROR kit with '17+ 4 runner brakes. In your other thread you used an Advics master. Do you recommend using that or a 17+ 4Runner master?
My rims are 4.56 backspace so I might be cutting it a bit close. Ha
The Advics p/n BMT-090 used on my HJ in the Tundra Mod thread seems a perfect match. I believe it is stock on non-ABS FJ-80's. The recommendation came from Cruiser Outfitters.
I don't have direct experience with the 2018 4-Runner calipers. Since the disk size is comparable, I would imagine the caliper piston sizes are too. Note that there is a little bit of leeway (like 1/8") in the master piston size window. I have used '95 4-Runner calipers with the OEM 60 master. The pedal travel is longer but requires less force. It still feels good but the pedal throw has to be adjusted just right and the rear shoes must not have excess travel. If the master has insufficient volume, you will need to pump the pedal numerous times. This is obviously dangerous for a panic stop.
Using a bigger master ('95 4-Runner) with smaller calipers (OEM 60) is where you loose mechanical advantage and it becomes dangerous. The pedal feels firmer but braking force is reduced.
This isn't a direct answer. Sorry. But I hope the information helps. It's possible the BMT-090 is the last and largest non-ABS master available from Toyota. So even if its not the perfect choice, its the best option available. Kurt may know.
I don't have direct experience with the 2018 4-Runner calipers. Since the disk size is comparable, I would imagine the caliper piston sizes are too. Note that there is a little bit of leeway (like 1/8") in the master piston size window. I have used '95 4-Runner calipers with the OEM 60 master. The pedal travel is longer but requires less force. It still feels good but the pedal throw has to be adjusted just right and the rear shoes must not have excess travel. If the master has insufficient volume, you will need to pump the pedal numerous times. This is obviously dangerous for a panic stop.
Using a bigger master ('95 4-Runner) with smaller calipers (OEM 60) is where you loose mechanical advantage and it becomes dangerous. The pedal feels firmer but braking force is reduced.
This isn't a direct answer. Sorry. But I hope the information helps. It's possible the BMT-090 is the last and largest non-ABS master available from Toyota. So even if its not the perfect choice, its the best option available. Kurt may know.
Thanks! I called over to CruiserOutfitters and they didn't have a great recommendation but JTOutfitters recommended using the master cylinder from FzJ80s as they were designed for cruisers with 4 wheel disc brake systems so I went with that.
