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boost pressure Where to set?

Discussion in 'Diesel Tech / 24 volts' started by BURGER, Jul 20, 2005.

  1. BURGER

    BURGER

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    I picked up my grainger valve today and have a few questions. Once I fabb up some barbed fittings to the end of the valve is it as easy as just cutting the black tubing from my intake plenum to my waste gate actuator and installing the boost controller. Do I have to have anything else installed connecting to the apparatus to make it work?I have a boost guage instaled already.

    I ask this because some of the links I have found while searching show a little bit different way to do it but I think that is for when you use a turbo with a different type of waste gate.

    Lastly I have the 12-ht motor and h55f combo and was wondering where approx I should be setting my boost level to. I have heard that 14 lbs is no problems but some first hand experience would be so much better.
     
  2. crushers

    crushers post ho

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    make sure you get some tiny clamps as the rubber line has a habit of blowing off...
     
  3. BURGER

    BURGER

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    Yeah I have new little clamps.

    Am I on the right track as to how I am installing and do you know what would be a good pressure to set at.

    Lastly what kind of gains am I looking at here. Better economy,noticable power gains lower egts. What kind of power gain do you think in %.
     
  4. crushers

    crushers post ho

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    what i would do is sart low say 10 psi, give a try, turn up the fuel, try again.
    go to 12 psi, give it a try, turn up the fuel a bit more and if you are happy then leave it alone, if you want then turn up the valve to 14 psi (max i recommend but then i am no guru) and turn up the fuel again...
    the thing you want to remember is VERY seldom are you going to be up to this setting anyway, on the highway you will be at between 6 and 8 psi, you might see 12 on a hill or if you are pulling a trailer and have your foot into it you might reach 14 psi.
    the big thing is the EGTs, make sure you set your max fuel so the gauge does not go over 1000F so test on a good long steep hill... ie the coqu...
    cheers
    Wayne
     
  5. BURGER

    BURGER

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    Thanks crushers. I was hoping to not turn up the fuel as I get some black smoke under load and was hoping to use that up before adjusting fuel. Also it seems that you said most time I will not see full load(12lbs boost) but at the moment when driving say 100km/hr in 4th or 5th and not pushing it I am running a constant 8lbs of boost. Will this still be the norm after turning up the boost and only under full load will it go to say 12lbs of boost.

    Lastly what kind of adjustment can I expect to have to do to the fuel adjustment. I.E. 1/2 cturn for say 2 extra pounds of boost.

    Thanks for your help,diesel newbie at work here.
     
  6. BURGER

    BURGER

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    This is what I have made but I feel like there is something wrong. I have read a few sites and they all seem to have a tee or a line off a tee that seems to go to atmosphere. Do I need this feature? I was under the understanding that all I am trying to do is delay the pressure going from the intake to the waste gate actuator i.e. cutting the black tubing and just putting an adjustable spring loaded valve. I have searched a ton but dont feel that I am getting all the info I need( I think).


    The threaded side will thread into the tee I have for my boost gauge and the barbed side will run a short pice of tubing to the actuator.You can then adjust the knurled side in or out to increase tension on the spring and ball valve therfore adjusting the pressure going to the actuator.Yes,no?
    grainger valve.jpg
     
  7. Satamax

    Satamax

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    Hi.

    Presure wise, the absolute max without an oil cooler is 900grams per square cm (0.9bar) 700 being on the safe side. I've heard of guys going to 1.2 bar, with oil cooler, bigger rad, new reinforced clutch etc! Lately, i've seen a HZJ7 something with 225BHP on an HDJ80 24V engine! Nicee!
     
  8. BURGER

    BURGER

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    If I convert this 700 grams per cm/2 is the factory setting of 8.5 psi. So you aresaying that a boost controller no matter what will be a detriment to the motor. 900 is 12.8 psi
     
  9. troopie

    troopie

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    Max,

    Funny thing about that HZJ 74 is that the intercooler has been taken off and the fuel was turned back two full turns. It was alot faster then when you saw it.
    BTW did you like the sound it makes, i fabbed up the muffler.

    Mark
     
  10. brownbear

    brownbear Mod in Hibernation Moderator

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    that theory sounds not too bad.
    the way I have it understood is your are restricitng the airflow. as in an overall restriction, air will still go to the actuator but will have to pass thru a metered orfice. which will lower the px and make the wategate open later, giving higher psi at the top.

    Like many guys screw with the actuator arm changing length will change when the wasteagate opens, but I can not see it having much adjustment. That why the air flow to the actuator is better.

    if you block it off completely you will make max psi. so partial block will be partial psi.

    a spring and ball will work too. it will hit that set psi and open the wastegate. just might be more sudden. might cause bootstrapping(surge). where it will open suddenly instead of gradual, and dump the boost, then it will close, open, close.

    where imop a metered orfice will be gradual and hold the waste in a varible posistion.

    ok now this is my theory, many others have much more experience with it. I took turbochargers in school for aviation. Don't take this information as golden. try your device and let us know.

    I doubt you will hurt anything doing this. you have gauges and will be able to tell if you are surging.

    good luck, I may follow very soon with your invention.
     
  11. crushers

    crushers post ho

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    actually the spring and ball is gradual. you need the set amount of boost to open it so it will open gradually, it is not the same idea as the blow off valve...
    cheers
     
  12. brownbear

    brownbear Mod in Hibernation Moderator

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    very well, thats how I imagined the set up. thinking like a blow valve would be bad.

    so this is a really low px regulator. is this the same set up Wayne that you did on the 3b II ?

    Stick it in there Burger.... can't wait to hear the boost increase.
     
  13. brownbear

    brownbear Mod in Hibernation Moderator

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    if you have : oil temp, boost, pyro gauges. then you are set,

    factory settings ie boost and fuel, are done so that they are dummy proof. a driver can do whatever with out damaging the engine. once you adjust anything off original factory you chance doing damage.

    but thats why you have the gauges. to be able to monitor the temps and boost. it adds a lot to your driving in the terms of being sure you arn't reaching limits.

    But since we don't really know the limits, no one but toyota does. then we are taking what each of us consider as safe risks.

    nobody knows for sure that 14 psi is ok or 1250 on the pyro. it has become the norm for us.

    you also are running a factory turbo designed for an engine designed for a turbo. you are a little better off than us NA engined trucks that are boosting up beyond our already higher comp ratio.

    if you are monitoring the gauges and arn't over temping, then I would sleep well at night.

    of course IMOP
     
  14. Satamax

    Satamax

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    Hi everybody!

    Burger, i thought the factory setting was 500Grams above atmo! Then 900 is not too bad! Mark, that was a nicee machine! I liked the sound when he started it, but after, when you're inside, there's too much noise to hear anything!

    Bye.

    Max.
     
  15. Tapage

    Tapage Club 4X4 Panamá SILVER Star

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    I thought 1250ºF is the max EGT can your engine handle.

    In turbo glide kit for 3B engine, the instructions say specific 1/4 cturn when you install the Turbo kit on a stock 3B engine.
     
  16. crushers

    crushers post ho

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    short burst to higher temps are okay, it is long runs at high temps that can do signifigant damage...(how is that for spelling? i should go back to school)
     
  17. BURGER

    BURGER

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    After looking into it a little more today I have realized that there has to be a port some where between the valve I have shown and the waste gate actuator. If there was no port to atmosphere what would happen is the pressure that you applied to the ball valve(say 12psi) after removing the throttle would decrease but only enough to close the ball valve. The waste gate actuator would then be held open by the residual air pressure between the now closed ball valve and the waste gate actuator.

    You need a small hole to bleed off the pressure between the ball valve and the waste gate actuator so that after the throttle is removed there is some where for the pressure to escape to atmosphere,thus allowing the waste gate to close again.

    What the ball valve is doing is when you set the ball valve you will actually have to set it a little higher than what your final psi will be as when the ball valve opens there will be some loss out the hole you have to atmosphere. Therefore by setting the ball valve for say 16 psi the actual reading may be only 12 psi because the port is allowing some bleed off. I have read somewhere around a 1/16 is a big enough hole to go with

    Now I am no expert and am welcoming any responses as to whether you agree with what I have said. If any one has done one already I would love to hear whether you added this bleed off feature. If not how did you get the pressure to bleed off after closing throttle.?
     
  18. crushers

    crushers post ho

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    nope, once you back off on th ethrottle the ball will close and the waste gate will shut...
    no residue pressure...
     
  19. BURGER

    BURGER

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    Sound good i will try it without a bleed off port. Worse thing that would happen is the boost pressure would stay high at closed throttle.

    Why do all these web sites that I read all have a bleed off port. Is the the design for some other type of turbo or only for gas motors?
     
  20. crushers

    crushers post ho

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    bleed off port could be a blow off valve...