Birfield grease

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dbleon

dbleon

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Not attempting to open a can of worms here... just trying to do things right the first time.

What grease (type not brand) are those with experience using in the birfield/knuckle housing???

Did a bit of research and have read conflicting ideas on the proper viscosity.

I realize the FSM spec's Molybdenum for the birfield.. but what viscosity is reccomended??

Can I just use a good synthetic grease like mobil1 in the birf and bearings?

I imagine like motor oils, grease technology has probably improved greatly since 1985.

What do the experts say?

Thanks
 
I used Mobil 1 synthetic last time I did my knuckles. Frankly I think if you're using the correct formulation, you'll be fine. I'm just a Mobil 1 fan.
 
Hi All,

Just use a moly grease that is "EP" (Extreme Pressure) rated.

Regards,

Alan
 
I went to wal mart and picked up a couple tubes of super tech moly-lithium grease. I know it's the cheep stuff but I bet it is better than what we had in 85.
 
Spook50 said:
I used Mobil 1 synthetic last time I did my knuckles. Frankly I think if you're using the correct formulation, you'll be fine. I'm just a Mobil 1 fan.
Click to expand...

Good to know. On the Mobil1 , Different formulation for bearings? or one size fits all?

Thx
 
dbleon said:
Good to know. On the Mobil1 , Different formulation for bearings? or one size fits all?

Thx
Click to expand...

As far as moly versus lithium (and other types I can't think of off the top of my head). I think it has to do with maintaining its lubricity and viscosity under extreme pressure and certain heat levels. Front wheel bearings can still get a fair amount of heat thanks to what's transferred through the steel from the brake rotors.

With the Mobil 1, as long as it's spec'd for disc brake wheel bearings (heat tolerance again) you'll be fine. I used it when I did my knuckles 100K miles ago and the grease still looked good when I pulled the hubs off a couple weeks ago. At least, it did on the side where the inner oil seal WASN'T kaput :D
 
I'm not sure what you're referring to with 'grease viscosity'. High temp vs. low temp?

From what I've read, most common greases fall into two categories: Type I or Type II.

Type I uses a lithium base. Type II uses a clay base. The base is a thickener to keep the lubricating oil coated to the bearing surfaces. Most high pressure rated greases are lithium. Most high temp greases are clay. Lithium with a moly additive, 5 to 10%, is best for high pressure sliding surfaces, i.e. birfield axle joints.

The application spec charts for Type I lithium moly greases usually specifically exclude wheel bearings. I've found this consistent even with very expensive synthetic greases like Aeroshell 33 Moly. I don't know why but the petroleum engineers who wrote those charts must have a pretty good reason.

The application charts for Type II clay base greases generally exclude extreme high pressure applications.

I have yet to read a grease application guide that claims to be recommended for both applications. I have read numerous documents which warn that mixing clay and lithium greases will severely degrade their effectiveness.

The Toyota FSM calls for different grease types in the wheel bearings and in the birfs. It's a pain to have to keep two greases on the shelf and I have used moly grease to pack my wheel bearings on one of my trucks consistently for several hundred thousand miles without bearing failure. Someone running larger tires with a larger engine on harder trails might not be so lucky.

I'm sure there are lots of guys running only one type of grease too. I think birfs fail more often because of not enough grease rather than what grease is used.

Sorry for not actually answering your question. I hope the other information is helpful though.
 
The "viscosity' i was refering to is the NLGI grade. I realize the birfield is an EP application, but noone mentions the viscosity of the grease. Does the grease need to be able to circulate the knuckle to keep it all lubed?

My underatanding is that some jeepers, fords, and others with knuclkle/ball type steering types use an NLGI #1 for this application... its more runny consistancy than NLGI #2.
 
Birfield's are Rzeppa type Constant Velocity Joints, similar to but not quite the same as the typical CVJ used on front wheel drive cars & IFS trucks. I use CV joint grease in my Birf's.

I happen to also use CVJ grease in my wheel bearings. Started doing this after talking to a guy who is high up on the R&D side of a Cup car team. He told me that the high speed ovals were killing RF outer wheel bearings. They went to all sorts of Non-destructive testing methods on brand new, quality bearings to select the best couple out of a case of them. They'd then use the best wheel bearing grease that they'd found, and pray that the bearing would last the whole 500 mile race. Said that after the race that bearing was usually junk (not that they'd re-use them anyway).

On the advice of a Tribology expert they tried using CVJ grease in those bearings. Their testing showed that not only did the bearings live for the 500 miles, but that they'd come out looking like they still had some miles left in them. They've since gone to using Krytox grease, but few of us can afford the several hundred dollars that it would cost to fill a Birfield cavity with that stuff.

On my street cars CVJ grease has proven to be a lifetime wheel bearing grease. Put in quality wheel bearings, sourced from a bearing house - not a parts store, packed with CVJ grease and I've never had to replace the bearings again. On my 4x4's I usually R&R the wheel bearings when I have to R&R the steering bearings, which ranges from 25k to maybe 60k depending on how much desert race chasing I've done. The wheel bearings always look good to go for more, but I know that they've been subjected to the same impacts that have Brinnelled the steering bearings making them very notchy feeling. Just doesn't seem like a good plan to reuse the wheel bearings after that kind of abuse.

You didn't ask for a brand, but I've gotten similar results from both the old formula CVJ grease that VW dealerships carried at the parts counter and from Redline Synthetic. I'd prefer it if I could still get the VW stuff.
 
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Thanks for that ntsqd.

What grade?

ntsqd said:
Birfield's are Rzeppa type Constant Velocity Joints, similar to but not quite the same as the typical CVJ used on front wheel drive cars & IFS trucks. I use CV joint grease in my Birf's.

I happen to also use CVJ grease in my wheel bearings. Started doing this after talking to a guy who is high up on the R&D side of a Cup car team. He told me that the high speed ovals were killing RF outer wheel bearings. They went to all sorts of Non-destructive testing methods on brand new, quality bearings to select the best couple out of a case of them. They'd then use the best wheel bearing grease that they'd found, and pray that the bearing would last the whole 500 mile race. Said that after the race that bearing was usually junk (not that they'd re-use them anyway).

On the advice of a Tribology expert they tried using CVJ grease in those bearings. Their testing showed that not only did the bearings live for the 500 miles, but that they'd come out looking like they still had some miles left in them. They've since gone to using Krytox grease, but few of us can afford the several hundred dollars that it would cost to fill a Birfield cavity with that stuff.

On my street cars CVJ grease has proven to be a lifetime wheel bearing grease. Put in quality wheel bearings, sourced from a bearing house - not a parts store, packed with CVJ grease and I've never had to replace the bearings again. On my 4x4's I usually R&R the wheel bearings when I have to R&R the steering bearings, which ranges from 25k to maybe 60k depending on how much desert race chasing I've done. The wheel bearings always look good to go for more, but I know that they've been subjected to the same impacts that have Brinnelled the steering bearings making them very notchy feeling. Just doesn't seem like a good plan to reuse the wheel bearings after that kind of abuse.

You didn't ask for a brand, but I've gotten similar results from both the old formula CVJ grease that VW dealerships carried at the parts counter and from Redline Synthetic. I'd prefer it if I could still get the VW stuff.
Click to expand...
 
VW stopped selling CVJ grease?!? :crybaby:
 
VW still sells CVJ grease, I checked, but it's $14 for a 120g tube, so the Redline is the way to go at $12 for 14 oz ... and it's Red Moly, too.
 
Spike Strip said:
VW stopped selling CVJ grease?!? :crybaby:
Click to expand...
Local availability went away, no idea of the national situation. I've been lead to believe that what they sell now is different than when you could get it in a grease gun tube. Implied in that was that it wasn't as good, but I've no clue if that is true or not.

About the time that happened the Redline CV2 became easy to get, so I switched and didn't look back.
 
Backwoods Goop is the ONLY way to go for birfields!!!!!!!


*snickers*
 
cruiserfj45 said:
I went to wal mart and picked up a couple tubes of super tech moly-lithium grease. I know it's the cheep stuff but I bet it is better than what we had in 85.
Click to expand...

2x - super tech moly-lithium

$3.47 per tube
 
Spook50 said:
Damn I'm gonna have to stock up on that stuff. Hell of a lot cheaper than any of the synthetic grease I can find locally, and I've heard nothing but good stuff about Redline's products.
Click to expand...

MUD Group buy??

I think this is what ill likely use... I just hate ordering stuff online.

Can this be sourced at local type stores?
 
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