fixeded
Bear Wallow fire.. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter splitshot
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fixeded
inkpot
SILVER Star
So far all I've heard about any of these bigger fires this year is "human caused". OK, so it ain't lightening, so that means there is a story there, but NOBODY is telling it in the news. HMMMMM??????
Living in the Past
SILVER Star
Sad truth is the Forest Service policy of fighting every fire for a hundred years is the biggest problem. In the late eighties when they decided to change that policy and let all the natural caused fire burn it was too late. First fire that tried this with was in Yellowstone Nat. Park and about half the park burned.
It does bother me that they wait intil a fire gets huge until they really put a lot of resources on it. But I guess it all depends on where it starts. The Hill Fire just east of Flagstaff had surry bombers fdumping loads right after it started. I wonder what would have happened if they had done this on the Wallow Fire. KPHO site has an intersting map showing how much was burned each day. First day was almost nothing.
I did read that a tweny year old kid who was mad at his girlfriend and started the Hill Fire just east of Flagstaff was caught. But that fire was very small compared compared to the others.
the topic of how to manage the forest with regard to fire is such a big issue, i know lots of folks like to blame the tree huggers but thats just not the fair really, all they wanted was to put a reduction or ban on logging OLD GROWTH trees, which incidentally is exactly what mother nature used to do with regular forest fires burning the grasses and seedlings and never getting into the canopy.
neither the tree huggers nor the forest service is doing much good as they continue to fight each other.
there has been some recent legislation passed with help from a group,,, dont remember the name but they are a long time forest agency and really seem to know what they are talking about, that, if the remaining forests dont all burn up should be able to finally make some headway into real forest management for everybody. basically the plan is to go in a thin all the young trees and saplings out, get the forest opened up like its supposed to be, let the grasses grow then let nature set its own fires every few years and only set up lines to protect what needs protecting letting the fire run its natural course.
as for the cause of the fire,, i have some inside peeps that tell me it was a couple guys who went in on horses, tied them to a tree, set up camp and went for a hike leaving the campfire going. two burnt up horses and a dog were found. it wasnt clear if the two guys came forward or not, and its not clear if they were ranchers or cowboys or brokeback mountaineers.
neither the tree huggers nor the forest service is doing much good as they continue to fight each other.
there has been some recent legislation passed with help from a group,,, dont remember the name but they are a long time forest agency and really seem to know what they are talking about, that, if the remaining forests dont all burn up should be able to finally make some headway into real forest management for everybody. basically the plan is to go in a thin all the young trees and saplings out, get the forest opened up like its supposed to be, let the grasses grow then let nature set its own fires every few years and only set up lines to protect what needs protecting letting the fire run its natural course.
as for the cause of the fire,, i have some inside peeps that tell me it was a couple guys who went in on horses, tied them to a tree, set up camp and went for a hike leaving the campfire going. two burnt up horses and a dog were found. it wasnt clear if the two guys came forward or not, and its not clear if they were ranchers or cowboys or brokeback mountaineers.
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IIRC, in the report from Tonto fire the other night, this was the deal, but no mention of horses, just dogs.
splitshot
Head cook, Bottle washer, and Peace keeper.
- Thread starter
- #26
Makes perfect sense doesn't it, but anytime there is a federal government entity in the skew of things they have tendency to turn something simple into a fubar.
If I were to guess a group, it would be the San Carlos and White Mountain Apaches, superior job imo, creating a heathly forest vs NFS.. Maybe us Magaaniis need to lean some of their rain dance skills as well..
inkpot
SILVER Star
Just got this from my brother in Prescott. His son Mike is a Deputy out of Bagdad. It really hurts to see some of those pix, especially the Big Lake area, where we have camped a lot. John
"Here is info on the Wallow fire which is in the area where we were going to camp last week. Mike is currently working security in the Alpine area last night and tonight. jb
Apache-Sitgreaves National Forests' Photostream
This is now the largest fire in AZ history, over one half million acres. The DC10 carries 12,000 gallons of fire retardant. That's 100,000 pounds.
Great photography of the Wallow Fire in Arizona 2011 from the Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest Service."
"Here is info on the Wallow fire which is in the area where we were going to camp last week. Mike is currently working security in the Alpine area last night and tonight. jb
Apache-Sitgreaves National Forests' Photostream
This is now the largest fire in AZ history, over one half million acres. The DC10 carries 12,000 gallons of fire retardant. That's 100,000 pounds.
Great photography of the Wallow Fire in Arizona 2011 from the Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest Service."
I got back from 11 days in alpine on monday night. the hotshot crews working the forests are doing a great job with backburns, only a small percentage of them actually made it to the canopy and moonscaped the surrounding mountains. the duff on the floor of the forests almost everywhere i was seemed to be 4 inches plus. it makes for a hell of a time mopping up the burned areas while it continues to smolder. the winds were a constant and changing force and at times were causing spot fires up to 2 miles across the fire line. total devastation wise, rodeo chediski was much harder to look at when it was over.
I've heard similar reports that this fire left much more unburned than rodeo-chediski. But sad thing to me is the type of country this burned through...some of the prettiest in the state ,imo. Also it's sad to see so much timber wasted when people could have responsibly thinned it while providing jobs, resources, and a healthier forest. Now its all gone up in smoke...
most of what i saw burned, mainly forests floor and underbrush, will grow back and be healthier than what it replaced, at a very quick rate. the majority of what burned can't be seen due to the crews keeping the fire out of the trees, which makes it much easier to look at than rodeo. i had heard that even trees that are now burned and dead, are still off limits to cut, due to conservationists! so watch yourself as you get back into that country, plenty of hazards waiting to fall.
teh only structures that i actually saw impinged upon by fire were in a valley just north of the alpine divide on the west side of the road. i'm pretty sure that in alpine proper, no structures were lost.
I heard that Silvia Allen was introducing a bill to allow people to go in and harvest the lumber before it gets wasted like much of rodeo-chediski wood.
MaddBaggins
Remember the KnightRider!
I think it's awesome that we legalized fireworks! We should have fires sprouting up all over the place in the next couple weeks.
Whose bright idea was that?
Whose bright idea was that?
I'll refrain . . .
Got in last night from 12 days on the Wallow fire. Spent the first couple of days doing structure protection around some the Alpine "subdivisions" thinning out and back burning. A lot of work in vain on a long shift. Moved from there to the north east side working in branch one thinning and burning out. With high winds in the afternoon and evening we spent a lot of time holding and waiting for spot fires. Left with 20% containment.
From Luna Lake (crappy camera which doesn't get out on the line. No pictures of anything torching.)
Division cut us loose early since a new incident command team came in a didn't want to bother de-mobilizing crews with only a couple more shifts left. Seemed ridiculous with spotting forecasted that day at 3-5 miles due to high winds.
Coming from a home forest where 90% of our trees are dead, it was refreshing to work in a healthier forest. While a lot of trees were obviously burned, much more of the underbrush burned. Other than some snags and torched sections I think the forest will look great in a couple years.
From Luna Lake (crappy camera which doesn't get out on the line. No pictures of anything torching.)
Division cut us loose early since a new incident command team came in a didn't want to bother de-mobilizing crews with only a couple more shifts left. Seemed ridiculous with spotting forecasted that day at 3-5 miles due to high winds.
Coming from a home forest where 90% of our trees are dead, it was refreshing to work in a healthier forest. While a lot of trees were obviously burned, much more of the underbrush burned. Other than some snags and torched sections I think the forest will look great in a couple years.
Thanks Ridgerunner! It's tough work and we appreciate the efforts of you and thousands of others who came together to fight this monster. I'm encouraged by your report. Now if the monsoons will come gently and soon, these infernos will settle down and hopefully not erode too much top soil away.
Happy Trails,
Fumann
ridgerunner, were you on a hotshot crew?
inkpot
SILVER Star
Thanks for the pic of Luna Lake. My brother had vacation scheduled to take his family up there last week. Oh well, maybe next year if the fish are still there. JohnGot in last night from 12 days on the Wallow fire. Spent the first couple of days doing structure protection around some the Alpine "subdivisions" thinning out and back burning. A lot of work in vain on a long shift. Moved from there to the north east side working in branch one thinning and burning out. With high winds in the afternoon and evening we spent a lot of time holding and waiting for spot fires. Left with 20% containment.
From Luna Lake (crappy camera which doesn't get out on the line. No pictures of anything torching.)
Division cut us loose early since a new incident command team came in a didn't want to bother de-mobilizing crews with only a couple more shifts left. Seemed ridiculous with spotting forecasted that day at 3-5 miles due to high winds.
Coming from a home forest where 90% of our trees are dead, it was refreshing to work in a healthier forest. While a lot of trees were obviously burned, much more of the underbrush burned. Other than some snags and torched sections I think the forest will look great in a couple years.