B engine power issues... (1 Viewer)

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well i didnt prime it at first but it was only for a matter of at most 45 seconds, which could have been the problem. but i checked all the main and rod bearings and they were smooth still. heres a pic of the damage. and i did torque those bolts thanks for the help thus far. :beer:
1002122015.jpg
1002122015a.jpg
 
Did you find the markings on the timing cogs all lined up correctly?

Or by "gnarled up idler gear" do you mean that you found some of the teeth on that cog so badly damaged that it allowed the engagement to skip/jump a few teeth? (If so that explains the power problems.)



And did you assemble the motor yourself during the rebuild or did someone else do it?

:beer:
 
Yes, this does look bad, BUT, if the teeth were engaging, and aligned, and are not broken, then this may not you problem. True, it will sound bad and would not run like this for long, but it does not look like enough wear to have caused teeth to jump. ( I may be wrong here)
We need some pictures of, and a report on the gears please.
George
 
You can't jump Teeth. The wear you have will need news parts and gears or like I did : Send it to a machine shop and put a needle bearing on your idle gear. Look also at your oil pump for wear... it's easy when your cover is open. Will tell you how mutch trouble this oil trouble give you.

Look at you valve setting. compression test, injector. Your power problem isn't an easy task. I remove my motor in a week and send it in a industriel diesel workshop for the same issu after more than a year of seach.

New head, gasket, oil pump, injector, rebuilt diesel pump.. etc.. I think my motor is new from A to Z but I'm not able to run higher then 90km/h for 10 minutes before overtemperature. 4000$ later on the same motor and same power issu I bought an other motor that I will put in to continu to seek the trouble.
 
The teeth on the gears are completely fine, its the inside of the gear thats bad and the outside of the part it runs on. I did not notice if the marks were lined up or not, when i seen the idler gear, I pulled it off to see the extent of damage....

I did rebuild it myself.
 
Ok then, a good start would be to replace these two components, re-align, clean out the sump, prime the oil pump, and try again.
Personally I do not think this is your problem. It would have made a horrible noise and lowered your oil pressure, but should not have robbed your power. I am now more worried about your oil circulation, perhaps the lack of power is a small heat seize caused by lack of oil, because it's was all pissing out of the idler journal??

If my first suggestion does not work, and you are happy with the IP and injectors, then you may want to look at the bearings and bores again and check for signs of heat seizing.

Look like we both have the B blues at the moment!!!
 
...I did not notice if the marks were lined up or not, when i seen the idler gear, I pulled it off to see the extent of damage....

Damn. But I can imagine how you would have been so keen to inspect the damage that it slipped your mind.

However it would certainly have been nice for "off-timing" to have been either confirmed or refuted as the cause of your power loss. Never mind. (Missed opportunity.)

And if you did the assembly yourself then you'll definitely be able to tell how much of that idler wear is new.

If it is mostly all new, then as Gengis says, the power loss could well be caused by lack of lubrication elsewhere. (Turning the engine over by hand with the glowplugs removed should give you an idea of whether bearings are tight/semi-seized or not ... but of course you'd need the timing gears back on and properly aligned to safely do that now.)

And, if the bearings aren't tight elsewhere and since you didn't confirm or refute poor timing, I'd be looking for any possibility that the oil feed to that idler gear could have become disrupted (as a stand-alone event) by some sort of assembly error.

This diagram doesn't provide much insight to me for how the oil finally gets to the idler gear:

OilFlow.jpg

:cheers:
OilFlow.jpg
 
This is fantastic information, I too regret not checking the timing now :doh: ... but like you said, missed oppurtunity. yes all of the wear on the timing gear was new... :crybaby: ... I have some parts coming in now though from 4wheelauto thankfully.

I had all the injectors rebuilt once before a couple years before the engine rebuild so i will be checking them again to rule them out and also i will check the pressure on the injector pump, just to be sure thats not a power issue.

I really like this oiling diagram! Thank you for sending this! It will be very helpful :D

Now i will try to figure out why this wore this way

I'll keep everyone posted,

thanks again for all the information everyone!! :cheers:
 
Alright, I might have found out why i had this problem, but i want to know what everyone thinks.

I was putting everything in and i took out the pressure relief valve and began priming the oil pump through there (yellow arrow). after a little while of doing this oil began leaking from behind the crankshaft gear (red arrow). Is there supposed to be a seal there that i didn't put in because it wasn't in my book. If so could this also set the timing gears off a little bit because the way that the teeth on the gears are slanted and the crankshaft gear being a little farther back then it should due to the possible seal not being in place?

Thanks for the help again :cheers:
Resampled952012-10-169523-36-4495684.jpg
 
Alright, I might have found out why i had this problem, but i want to know what everyone thinks.

I was putting everything in and i took out the pressure relief valve and began priming the oil pump through there (yellow arrow). after a little while of doing this oil began leaking from behind the crankshaft gear (red arrow). Is there supposed to be a seal there that i didn't put in because it wasn't in my book. If so could this also set the timing gears off a little bit because the way that the teeth on the gears are slanted and the crankshaft gear being a little farther back then it should due to the possible seal not being in place?

Thanks for the help again :cheers:

I can't see any sign of a seal being required/fitted there. And besides, any seal shouldn't affect the correct placement of the crankshaft gear.

But I did find something interesting.

Your engine must be pre Sept77 because from that date onwards they supplied extra lubrication to the idler shaft and the timing gears as shown here:

Pre-Sept 1977 (Yours?)
Pre-Sept77.jpg

And post Sept 1977:
1978Bengine.jpg
(Notice the addition of the oil feed pipe and oil feed nozzle?)

:beer:
Pre-Sept77.jpg
1978Bengine.jpg
 
I can't see any sign of a seal being required/fitted there. And besides, any seal shouldn't affect the correct placement of the crankshaft gear.

But I did find something interesting.

Your engine must be pre Sept77 because from that date onwards they supplied extra lubrication to the idler shaft and the timing gears as shown here:

Pre-Sept 1977 (Yours?)

(Notice the addition of the oil feed pipe and oil feed nozzle?)

:beer:


Marbles: You are a seriously useful guy. :popcorn:
 
BJ- A leak where you indicate tells me that the oil is coming from the oil pump directly.

There a are no seals on the pump, i think they rely on the interfearance fit of the gears in the pump.

How much pressure are you able to inject her to prime the pump??? If it's just a syringe with hand pressure then you may well have a problem with the oil pump.

If the oil is a low viscosity and you apply enough pressure for long enough then is will leak here, but using engine oil and hand pressure, then, no, it should not.

You now have two choices, reassemble and check the oil pressure properly on a good gauge OR, drop the sump, pull off the front caseing which houses the oil pump, and "check it out"

Sometimes the crank gear is removed by bush mechanics and the pump housing is damaged enough to cause your problems. Make you own tool to remove the gear ( ask me if you have a problem).

HOLD THE PHONE: beforwe you do any of the above, you have removed the plunger so perhaps you are getting oil pushed up the over pressure overflow????? In this case I am not sure where this overflow leads to so check it out as well.

Make sense???

Regards
George
 
Tom

This must be a problem area for Toyota, because on even later models, they remove the squirter 13613B from the idler journal and tap it directly into an oil passage on the block. They then point the "squirt" smack between the idler and crank gears.
 
Tom

This must be a problem area for Toyota, because on even later models, they remove the squirter 13613B from the idler journal and tap it directly into an oil passage on the block. They then point the "squirt" smack between the idler and crank gears.

I agree that it suggests Toyota was experiencing problems with timing gear lubrication at this time with all B-series engines George.

You're a wealth of knowledge :clap:

Sure enough .... August 1980 they changed it again as you say...

Aug 1980 onwards:
SquirterReposAug80.jpg

But given that my 1979 BJ40's engine is still running well at 250,000kms plus, I suspect the timing gear lube problems were not extreme.

I suspect that while the timing gear lubrication in older engines was "sparing", it is probably still sufficient providing the oil pressure doesn't drop too low.

And of course a lubrication deficiency in this area probably makes the timing gears more susceptable to damage if no assembly lube - or insufficient - is used here after engine work.

:beer:
SquirterReposAug80.jpg
 
mine is definately post 1978 in the picture above i do not have the idler shaft on there so its hard to tell. :p anyway, I ordered a new oil pump assembly too now just to be sure and also i had a bur inside of the oil pressure relief valve housing that i will clean out and replace the valve and spring. Lost marbles i have to agree with slowandsteady bj you are full of knowledge and very useful Thank you very much for the help thus far.
Gengis, Thanks a ton for the all the info, i did just put it in by hand through a hose put onto a lucas bottle. but im worried about the pump either way so like is said i have the parts now so i will replace it anyway. :p thanks again!
I will continue to keep everyone posted and thank you everyone!
 
mine is definately post 1978 in the picture above i do not have the idler shaft on there so its hard to tell. ....

We must have the same engines then (with the same timing gear oiling system).

Good luck.

:beer:
 
Thank You

as of now im still waiting on parts.

as soon as i work on it again I'll let you guys know whats going on
 
Thank You

as of now im still waiting on parts.

as soon as i work on it again I'll let you guys know whats going on
 

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