Are 37's on an 80 to big for an expedition build? (1 Viewer)

[lumbee1]

I've been going back and forth on 315's on stock 16" wheels or 37's on Tundra 17" wheels for about a month and just can't decide. I've search and poured over the 35 and under thread as well as the 37 and up thread. I've spoken with local MUD members so also haven't been able to help me make a decision.

My first choice in tire is the BFG KO2 for comfort, wear, and performance on and off road. I would like a mud terrain but we typically drive the Land Cruiser 95 to 98% on the highway, and next year I am planning on taking some long distance trips. We also wheel at Uwharrie National forest and will be doing some forest road exploring. By the time I order tires, I will have the Land Cruiser regeared to 4.88's.

The 37's appeal to me because of their offroad ability, clearance, and looks. I also consider the 37's insurance when I'm really stuck and need to air down to crawl out of any situation. I already have 1.25" spacers installed and flares have been removed so fitting 37's won't be a problem. The other plus is that the BFG KO2's are fairly light for a 37" tire.

But with all that said, the 315's are the sensible choice for an expedition build.

 

[atomicshawn]

I get the dilemma. I've been toying with the idea for awhile too. It would be nice if you could find the guy who has first hand experience going from 315s to 37s who uses his 80 the exact same way you do, and isn't that guy who, because he's gone through all the cost and effort of going bigger, is unwilling to admit it was better on 315s... If that indeed is the case. With the mind numbing number of lift/tire threads/posts to be found in 80 tech its likely the information is out there, you'll just need patience to swim through all of it... I don't have that patience.

Expedition schmexpedition. I wouldn't get hung up on that factor... whatever that is exactly. I would just focus on what suits your needs.

From what I've gathered, in the most basic terms, with 37s you're trading a bit of stability, economy, and mild to moderate increased strain on the steering and drivetrain for some clearance and a cooler look. The weight each of these variables carries depends on you, your taste for how things look and feel, your driving ability on and offroad, the load you carry, the terrain (or lack thereof) you frequent...

I've spent several years now running a 4" with 315s. All kinds of weather. Lots of different conditions; Ice covered narrow canyon roads, class 7-8 rock crawling, blasting through 5' snow drifts, mud bogs, and of course driving the kids to the library & grandma's house. There have been a few times I've been winching through the snow or mud, or doing a little rock surfing, and thought maybe 37s are a better idea. There have also been those times where I'm off camber, negotiating a boulder, all the world appears at sharp angles through the windshield, and my butt cheeks are trying to hang onto the seat for dear life. Somehow we miraculously end up back on all fours, and I wonder if the outcome would have been the same if we were on 37s.

While I think most in this crowd, if they had to, would choose function over form, in most cases the honest among us would also admit aesthetics is a worthy variable to consider. And lets face it, 37s look badass. But this 80 of mine is an unstoppable beast the way it's set up now, on 315s. The machine never ceases to amaze me. I'm afraid to mess with that. I'm also usually going out for multiple days, lots of bodies, top heavy with gear. So, ya, everyone's situation is unique I suppose. You've got to figure out what's right for you.

If everything in your sig line is right, it seems you will fit 37s just fine. I encourage you to do it. If it doesn't work out, go back to 315s, and let the rest of us know. Hopefully you won't have to roll it to figure it out

 

[cruisertom]

I would do 37s you are only talking 1-2" of actual difference, plus how many guys do you know that get a rig together and wish they went bigger? I know lots. If you had to do a bunch of modding to get them to work then it might be different

 

[TexasD90]

I've done both. When I started I went with 315 and stock gears. I then jumped to 37s and 5.29 gears. I am now building a new truck and going 315 and 4.88s.

That being said, I use my truck to travel. Realistically I use my cruiser 90%+ on the road. It is strictly a travel vehicle, but I've got to travel 700+ miles to get to my exploration destinations. When I went to 37" tires I did it right. I regeared, had perfect caster, chromoly axle shafts, DC drive lines etc.... It drove straight, true and had zero vibrations or issues. When loaded for a back country trip the truck had very little power, got about 10 mpg and wouldn't hold speeds of 75mph on any kind of grade. They were nice off road, but a good driver in a well sorted rig on 35s can go everywhere a mediocre driver can on 37s. If you aren't a hardcore wheeler, and are more of an explorer, I personally don't see any justification for 37s. You can hit all the mountain passes, trails and forest roads you want. You can even conquer the Rubicon on 35s if you want. With 35s you need less lift (unless you are willing to trim your fenders), so you can keep you cog lower as well. This results in better road and trail manners.

In the end you need to build your truck for you. Make sure you enjoy everything about it from its manners to its looks and you'll be happy.

My $.02

 

[REDrum]

I run 36" TSLs on my 96 FZJ80 (geared to 4:88), and it can be challenge with canopy growth and anything more than Maxx Traxx on the roof. From grade to top edge of roof rack its 7'-3" My '94 FZJ on 255/85/16s is a lot more agile in northeast woods and central american jungle. IMO, 315s are a big as you need for an expo truck. For hardcore mud and big rock wheeling go as big as your wallet can fund.

 

[kbahus]

I actually downsized back to 285's from 315's after getting into more traveling/camping than rock crawling. High altitude trips loaded with gear really bogged down the old girl and I needed all the help I could get. I think 37's are overkill for the type of traveling you will be doing in my opinion. After several years of rock crawling in Colorado where I used to live my skills improved to the point where there was no where that 33's couldn't take me that 35's would. I do recommend the re-gear with 315's as well, once you hit the western mountains on your trips you will be glad you did.

 

[REDrum]

I actually downsized back to 285's from 315's after getting into more traveling/camping than rock crawling. High altitude trips loaded with gear really bogged down the old girl and I needed all the help I could get. I think 37's are overkill for the type of traveling you will be doing in my opinion. After several years of rock crawling in Colorado where I used to live my skills improved to the point where there was no where that 33's couldn't take me that 35's would. I do recommend the re-gear with 315's as well, once you hit the western mountains on your trips you will be glad you did.

This should be sticky'd!

 

[Hedgepig]

I think you should really think - do you want a true overlander, or something to do heavy weight trails with - the two objectives are very different in my book. My (true) overlander is on 285/75/16s - and when I overland I do not expect to do any high rating serious trails. For true overlanding I do not want to get into serious bother if i can help it......I want to be able to self recover unaided and continue my journey. I also want to be able to buy replacement tyres around the world without paying and waiting for a special shipment to arrive in the middle of Central America or Africa. My rig is at full GVW and even though I have given careful attention to CoG I do not want to increase the height for no reason (I have an RTT, a rack and 2nd spare on the roof....so plenty of weight shifting around. Much overlanding is on two types of road - asphalt or wash-board: high enough sidewall to air-down, low enough for reasonable road manners.....and AT's for braking and wet-road performance. I also want to keep the reliability up and ease to get replacement parts (in the middle of nowhere)....more stock the better

If you want to do highly technical trails then go with the biggest tyres you can afford.....

Highly technical trails and overlanding are two different things in my view.

Just my 2c

 

[maxamillion2345]

I get the dilemma. I've been toying with the idea for awhile too. It would be nice if you could find the guy who has first hand experience going from 315s to 37s who uses his 80 the exact same way you do, and isn't that guy who, because he's gone through all the cost and effort of going bigger, is unwilling to admit it was better on 315s... If that indeed is the case. With the mind numbing number of lift/tire threads/posts to be found in 80 tech its likely the information is out there, you'll just need patience to swim through all of it... I don't have that patience.

Expedition schmexpedition. I wouldn't get hung up on that factor... whatever that is exactly. I would just focus on what suits your needs.

From what I've gathered, in the most basic terms, with 37s you're trading a bit of stability, economy, and mild to moderate increased strain on the steering and drivetrain for some clearance and a cooler look. The weight each of these variables carries depends on you, your taste for how things look and feel, your driving ability on and offroad, the load you carry, the terrain (or lack thereof) you frequent...

I've spent several years now running a 4" with 315s. All kinds of weather. Lots of different conditions; Ice covered narrow canyon roads, class 7-8 rock crawling, blasting through 5' snow drifts, mud bogs, and of course driving the kids to the library & grandma's house. There have been a few times I've been winching through the snow or mud, or doing a little rock surfing, and thought maybe 37s are a better idea. There have also been those times where I'm off camber, negotiating a boulder, all the world appears at sharp angles through the windshield, and my butt cheeks are trying to hang onto the seat for dear life. Somehow we miraculously end up back on all fours, and I wonder if the outcome would have been the same if we were on 37s.

While I think most in this crowd, if they had to, would choose function over form, in most cases the honest among us would also admit aesthetics is a worthy variable to consider. And lets face it, 37s look badass. But this 80 of mine is an unstoppable beast the way it's set up now, on 315s. The machine never ceases to amaze me. I'm afraid to mess with that. I'm also usually going out for multiple days, lots of bodies, top heavy with gear. So, ya, everyone's situation is unique I suppose. You've got to figure out what's right for you.

If everything in your sig line is right, it seems you will fit 37s just fine. I encourage you to do it. If it doesn't work out, go back to 315s, and let the rest of us know. Hopefully you won't have to roll it to figure it out

This might be the best piece of information on this whole site.

And let me reiterate this; Expedition schmexpedition. I wouldn't get hung up on that factor... whatever that is exactly. I would just focus on what suits your needs.

Overland schmoverland too.

 

[SNLC]

The lack of power factor is easily overcome, you just have to swap a v8 in there!

Seriously though, I had a run of the mill vortec (1997) with the 4L60e and split case on 35's with 4.10 gears. Even fully loaded, like for a month trip in Baja, the truck never lacked power. Vortecs are cheap, like under $1000 for a good motor, 4L60s are cheap too (I got one all ready to go with the split case and adapter for sale for $1250) and if you do it yourself, it is way less than a $10k swap like is often said on forums.

Cheers

 

[abruzzi]

The best option is entirely dependent on you needs and expectations. However, my opinion below.

"Two guys are out wheeling, the hardcore guy and the expedition guy. The both need to get to the same spot. The hardcore guy sizes up his options and picks the hardest line. The expedition guy picks the easiest line."

That is definitely not true of everyone. But for me, when I see the hardcore guys, it seems they see the trail as an obstacle course. Find the hardest, most difficult obstacles for the thrill of making it over (this is my brother's mindset.) For me the trail and obstacles are incidental. I'm not there to go off-roading, I'm there is get where nowhere else is, far from traffic, other campers, annoying people, cell phones, facebook. If I could get there on paved roads or graded dirt, I'm completely fine with it (though I like "unimproved" locations, which are pretty much never serviced by paved roads in the lower 48, and being paved, they have a much higher chance of other people being there.)

I know I'm at one far end of the spectrum, and may not align with your needs. You mention forest roads, here (NM) forest roads are almost all graded, and easily driven on stock 4x4s. You can find more inaccessible trails, but they are rarely forest service. There are occasional exceptions, but not that many. Most of the difficult stuff in out in BLM land that is unmaintained.

Ultimately 33s have been everything I need on my 80. (255/85) Loss of power was unnoticeable.

 

[bugsnbikes]

best option for expo is keeping it small........spin that 1fz like an f1 engine!

 

[OverLand Cruisers]

I actually downsized back to 285's from 315's after getting into more traveling/camping than rock crawling. High altitude trips loaded with gear really bogged down the old girl and I needed all the help I could get. I think 37's are overkill for the type of traveling you will be doing in my opinion. After several years of rock crawling in Colorado where I used to live my skills improved to the point where there was no where that 33's couldn't take me that 35's would. I do recommend the re-gear with 315's as well, once you hit the western mountains on your trips you will be glad you did.

X infinity...

 

[pillguy]

I do not have a 80 series, but a 3G 4Runner with 33 Toyo Mud Terrain tires for the SE mud we face. I would not go any more than this as it would force a regear and even worse mileage and my brakes would really suck. I would have to agree with the other comments on going with the smaller size.
I will suggest avoiding the BFGs and go with the Toyo's. THey are really well built, balance well and are very quiet on the road. They are fantastic in the "Camel Trophy Mud conditions we face in the SE".

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

If you plan is real expedition travel I would not consider 37's. Finding 37's in the event of tire failure is not easy to find outside of major US city's and much harder to find outside of the USA. 37's will (maybe) take your expedition rig 1% more places than 35's. Not worth the price of admission for most.

 

[SHREDwagon]

I went 285 to 255 to 315's as most seem to do. Was thinking 37's as you are, but decided on 315 for reliability. Meaning everything is going to wear / fail faster with the weight of a 37 mud. But seeing how the 37 KO2 only weighs 3 more pounds then the 315 and you've already decided on re-gearing and suspension - my vote is go for the extra 2".

Besides, you can find 37's easier than the sexpo 255's just about anywhere in this hemisphere. Good luck.

 

[renago]

one thing is doing 200-500 km trip, that is a nice WE trip.
another is 10.000 km.
real expedition trips are long distance journey in remote lands.
the main goal is to reach the finish not to race .
for me depending on different terrain , but will never go above 255 /85 /16 , that is aprox 33-34.
any thing above that is simply not needed , and could put the drive train of the car under too much stress .
and result in severe failure.
in general I ride on 265/75/16 , all terrain
for off road and expedition 255/85/16, mud .
In Africa EVERY one is riding on 7,50 . and they live a whole life on tracks and mud.
we should be more humble and learn from locals .

just my 2 cents

bye Renago

 

[SHREDwagon]

Hey Renago - good points. Also depends on what you're driving to a certain point. Preference to smaller tires for most vehicles is due to lower or no lift height and reducing cog. I feel 315's are the perfect size with the 80's larger fender openings and can stuff on a 2.5" lift without flares.

And the new ko2's actually have helped reduced wear and tear compared to the old and heavier 255 toyo MT. It's not fare to compare an MT size with an AT. I wouldn't want the weight of a 35" mud, that's for sure.

Most overlanders still prefer steel wheels too. To each there own.

 

[soenke]

Hey lumbee1

it depence where you will be travelling. For long time expedition it will be priority keeping the truck running. And small tires will save the origninal drive train. Running 37" you will bring more force to it and might damage diffs ore birfields. To be on the save site, use original tire sizes and accept sticking in the dirt a little more often... Running bigger tires savley, means adapting and inforcing parts of the drive train, meaning also more difficulty in getting spares in case of repair ...
Best thing for overlanding is running everythin stock and tires in sizes, that you will get everywhere...
doesn´t look that nice though.
We are running 37" with 4.5 diffs. I broke the high pinion front diff. already with almost no effort...

 

[Hedgepig]

The OP (lumbee1)has been very quiet since pulling the pin on this grenade......what are your thoughts and what will you go with? Without understanding exactly what your intended journeys are we are all scratching around basically putting our own 2c in. If you intend to go truly overlanding then many of the options put forward are just not available outside of the States.....