ARB bull bar not compatible with Hi-Lift Jack? (1 Viewer)

[Dwon]

Do you think that the mounts on the 98-02 sahara are to weak to handle a 12000lb winch. It doesn't make sense to me that it couldn't, if you use double line pull or triple line pull with the 9000lb would exert more force than a 12000lb single line pull. It seems unlikely that ARB would not have thought about this since they build snatch blocks. It would be nice to get a 98-02 sahara bar and use the new warn endurance 12.0 winch to keep the weight down.

These bumpers really confuse me, I don't the reason for all of the difference between each one. Dwon, is the winch on your combo bar a warn? I'm very curious about these bumpers because I plan on getting one within 6 months and would like to get a 12000 winch,but I don't want to rip it off the front of the rig or compromise the airbag compatibility by getting the 03+ sahara.

I'm using a Warn 12K.

Just get the bar made for your rig and a 12K winch and cut the top bar off. I think one of the guys in this thread did something like that if I remember correctly and it looks OK.

 

[hoser]

It doesn't make sense to me that it couldn't, if you use double line pull or triple line pull with the 9000lb would exert more force than a 12000lb single line pull.

Hmm, actually I think the force on the winch itself will be the same whether single, double or triple line pull.

 

[Dwon]

Hmm, actually I think the force on the winch itself will be the same whether single, double or triple line pull.

Yea, plus how likely will it be that there will be a tree within 20 feet so you can actually do a triple line pull. With 100' wire and the last 10 or so on the spool, you only have about 90' to work with and that aint a whole lot when you start doubling and tripling it!

 

[dclee]

Yea, plus how likely will it be that there will be a tree within 20 feet so you can actually do a triple line pull. With 100' wire and the last 10 or so on the spool, you only have about 90' to work with and that aint a whole lot when you start doubling and tripling it!

That's what winch extension lines are for...

 

[Dwon]

That's what winch extension lines are for...

True.

 

[pman]

From what information I have gathered here, it seems that the 98-02 combo bar has the best mounting design. I am wondering if the mounting brackets (ones that bolt to the frame) for the 98-02 combo bar will work on a 98-02 sahara bar. That way you get the lighter weight of the sahara with the mounting strength of the combo bar. Any thoughts on this somewhat wacky idea?

 

[Dwon]

Here's a great You Tube description of Bull Bar design.

YouTube - 4WD Action - 113 All you need to know about bullbars

 

[100 TD]

I purchased an 03 bar, the first design which was the older style 02 bar modified for the 03. ARB would not let me jack off it or modify it so I sold it and got the later bar (03 onwards but new design). I didn't want to have probs with airbags. A mate had an 02 with 02 bar and pulled out a couple of small saplings on his property with his winch and bent the winch carrier. ARB replaced the winch carrier under warranty, he sold the vehicle not long after. I haven't had to jack off my bar yet but I suppose I should do it in the driveway and see how much it flexes.

 

[saucebox]

I purchased an 03 bar, the first design which was the older style 02 bar modified for the 03. ARB would not let me jack off it or modify it so I sold it and got the later bar (03 onwards but new design). I didn't want to have probs with airbags. A mate had an 02 with 02 bar and pulled out a couple of small saplings on his property with his winch and bent the winch carrier. ARB replaced the winch carrier under warranty, he sold the vehicle not long after. I haven't had to jack off my bar yet but I suppose I should do it in the driveway and see how much it flexes.

I got some growing up to do...

 

[LARRYG36]

"" crush zones for proper airbag deployment on a 1998-2002 LC or LX"" WTF !!! NO ARB FOR ME THIS TIME...…

 

[LARRYG36]

"" crush zones for proper airbag deployment on a 1998-2002 LC or LX"" WTF !!! NO ARB FOR ME THIS TIME...…

 

[LARRYG36]

The reason why I said what I said was because as you can see I had an ABR bumper on my fj80, One day I was making a right turn out onto a Major Street, not paying attention there was a car came whipping in the lane that I was turning into and I hit him hard !!! between his rear tire and the rear bumper ,through the bumper into the other lane and car parts all over the place . He just kept on going so I stayed, call the police to get a report written because I didn’t wanna to be charged with leaving the scene , The cop and I were a picking up car parts out of two lanes on the street that I hit them on ,he said even though is was my fault don’t worry about it because he left the scene and it was probably a stolen vehicle or he was drunk or he didn’t have a drivers license . Then he spent the next half an hour just googling over my LC, he was amazed that there was no body damage. So I have nothing but praise for the ABR Bull Bar. And I really wanted to buy another one for this 100 that I just picked up but if I have to worry about crumple zones and airbags , I may have to rethink ARB this time. I will admit back in 92 when I bought the 92 there wasn’t really a lot of off-road accessories for the Land Cruiser back then ,it’s not what it’s like now . I wish we had all these accessory manufacturers back then that we have now .”we’re so spoiled and lucky now “. ..

 

[saucebox]

I don't get it. You won't buy an ARB because it's designed to work with the airbags?

 

[LARRYG36]

It all depends on what you’re doing , if you’re doing serious offloading you put a steel bumper and rock sliders to keep from crushing your doors in and frontal damage from rocks, little trees ,boulders , in our 80 we had a airbag off switch and it was off when we offloaded , when I start tearing apart the electrical in the 100 I’ll put a disable switch on the airbag system for offloading.,,,,,,,, remember I drove away from that accident because I didn’t have any crumple zones on my bumper !!! it held like a brick wall and tore the s*** out of that guys car and we drove home. “”” That’s the purpose of a steel bumper. “””

 

[LARRYG36]

I don't get it. You won't buy an ARB because it's designed to work with the airbags?

Airbags have nothing to do with it ,,the bumper has crush zones ,so how is it supposed to protect the body if they crushes in ??? And no jacking points and no mounts for shackles ????

 

[suprarx7nut]

Airbags have nothing to do with it ,,the bumper has crush zones ,so how is it supposed to protect the body if they crushes in ??? And no jacking points and no mounts for shackles ????

Crumple zones save lives by softening the impact. From a safety perspective, I've never seen evidence of them being unhelpful. From a property damage perspective, crumple zones are expensive and a hassle. I like my health and the health of my passengers far, far more than I will ever like any vehicle I own so it's a very worthy tradeoff in my eyes.

They can also help avoid unnecessary airbag deployments, I believe. All good things in my book.

I wasn't aware ARB had crumple zones built into their bumper mounts for the early model years. That's good to see from a safety standpoint, but a bit of a bummer if you can't yank around the bumper as you would the frame. I guess you'd have to use the OEM recovery points down low or use the winch?

I want to know more about how the 03+ bumpers maintain airbag compatibility. If not with a crumple mount, then with what?

 

[IndroCruise]

This thread has been running since 2008, so maybe things have moved on since it commenced .....

If it helps, the pics below show how a steel ARB Deluxe Bar (Stock Code 3413190) is attached to a June 2006 HDJ100R with IFS and airbags for driver (in steering wheel) and passenger (in dashboard). The Bar was fitted by ARC in March 2015. This Bar has a built-in ARB winch plate ready to accept a winch installation when and if required.

The slot for the tongue of a Hi-Lift jack does exist and can be used next to each black bumper strip on both sides of the ARB Deluxe Bar.

As far as I know, ARB has never designed or supplied ARB-brand recovery points for HDJ100R with IFS and airbags, nor endorsed any other supplier. Obviously, attaching snatch straps or tow rope etc directly to the Deluxe Bar would not be a good idea because of the possibility of twisting and distortion of the mountings. Although not endorsed, some non-ARB recovery or tow points do fit, as shown in the pictures further below. Details of one Australian supplier are shown at the link:
Roadsafe Automotive Products, Aftermarket Automotive Products, roadsafe suspension

The recovery points are fitted as shown in the pictures below with high tensile bolts passing through ARB bracket and anchoring in existing holes directly into RH Front and LH Front chassis rails. This means that the forces involved in recovery operations are passed directly to the vehicle chassis rails, not the ARB Deluxe Bar. Each tow point has shows a Working Load Limit (WLL) of 5,000kg (5 metric tonnes). In recovery or towing operations both recovery points must be used together with a connecting bridle between RH recovery point and LH recovery point to maximise load distribution, minimise chassis twisting.

Similar products are listed in USA – for example, see links:
Soft Shackle Tow Points - 60 80 100 Series
Tow Point Spacers 60 80 100 Series
No rated Working Load Limit is shown for these products.

Good vision of the details of the ARB Deluxe Bar can be seen in this video of installation on 100 series with IFS:




Recovery points are NOT the tie-down points used for shipping which are very dangerous, potentially fatal, if used in recovery operations – see link:

RECOVERY POINTS VS TIE DOWN POINTS - Unsealed 4X4

 

[LARRYG36]

I look at it like this, if you’re gonna sacrifice the gas mileage and performance because you have a steel bumper on you rig, it better not bend or de-form in anyway if you slide off a rock and hit a tree or boulder. Sometimes s*** just happens while you’re trailing. But if the thing is used as the family wagon ,I totally understand worrying about crush zones and airbags , our second FJ80 was our family wagon that never saw dirt so there was no reason to put a steel bumper on it . But I am noticing nowadays because of the”” OVER LAND“”popularity in this country now a lot of people are buying trailing gear or rock crawling gear just to look cool and if you look at their rigs there’s no damage or dirt or even dust underneath them...

 

[IndroCruise]

Agreed LARRYG36 – arrangements have to be fit for the actual purpose of the vehicle in its environment.

In this faraway part of the world, most modern 4WD’s and SUV’s are used as family wagons riding on 19inch or 20inch wheels with licorice straps for tyres and travel on sealed roads to work, supermarket, gym, school, family trips, etc. All good, if that is the purpose of the vehicle.

Some 4WD/SUV’s are used for ‘trailing’, or ‘off-roading’ as we would call it. Then the idea is to be prepared to ‘recover’ from trouble or at least have the good manners to have the fittings and equipment so that others can help without putting themselves at risk. So recovery points become important, along with basic recovery equipment such as snatch-straps, bridles, shackles, jacks, tow-ropes, air compressor, basic tools, basic spares, mobile phone, maybe satphone, PLB, etc.

Then add fit-for-purpose protection such as at least the right wheels and tyres -- and a Front Bar which must be airbag-compliant to satisfy the law, protect the family and consider the unpleasant task of rescue personnel in the case of a very bad accident involving lots of trauma.

Then if thought necessary, add snorkel if deep water is likely, plus winch, underbody plates, sliders, diff locks and whatever else is needed if tough duty is involved cross-country or on trails or off-road.

In Australia (about the same geographical size as all of continental USA, but population only a little more than half of California) there is a lot of main road, meaning a lot of distance between towns in this very spread-out, relatively dry continent. There are plenty of wandering wildlife (kangaroos, emus, wallabies, wombats, wild camels, wild horses, wild pigs and smaller animals) and often grazing stock (mainly cattle, sheep, goats plus others) may be found near roads.

So at some stage or other, most people driving in rural areas here will have an ‘animal strike’, especially if driving at night, even more so around dusk and dawn. The idea of the Front Bar, sometimes called a Bull Bar or a Roo Bar (short for Kangaroo) is that after hitting an animal, hopefully all survive and the vehicle can be driven to the next town, maybe a few hundred kilometres away. Some crumpling of parts of the Front Bar is OK – such as at the shock-absorbing ‘concertina section’ of the mount on the chassis rails which is all part of the design.

Colliding with a kangaroo is very common (could be 40-50kg or 88 to 110 pounds in weight but mostly smaller) and even at only 80 kilometres per hour (say 50 miles per hour) can easily disable an unprotected vehicle, by some or all of pushing the fan and radiator into the engine, rupturing the cooling system, possibly disabling electrical and fuel connections as well. The airbags may deploy. In the worst case, the animal also may tumble on to the bonnet and go through the windscreen with obvious consequences.

A vehicle protected by a reputable well-designed and fitted air-bag compliant Front Bar usually still will be driveable after hitting a small or mid-size animal. Hitting a fully grown steer (around 1,000kg or about a 1 tonne) or a camel or a horse (around ½ ton) at any speed is like driving into a brick wall. The Front Bar will help, but it certainly won’t save the vehicle and it is highly unlikely that the vehicle can be driven after the event. Hopefully the driver and passengers will survive if the airbags deploy correctly and seatbelts are in use. The worst case scenario is the large animal going over the top of the vehicle.

Where are such risks found? Certainly in inland Australia. I have also hit kangaroos 20 kilometres (say 13 miles) from my home in Brisbane, a State capital city on the East Coast of Australia. Each time, I was very happy that the ARB Deluxe Bar deflected the animal without significant damage to the vehicle. The airbags did not deploy. If they were available for HDJ100R/IFS, I would use a polymer “Smart Bar” – maybe when I graduate to a “200 series” -- SmartBar Bull Bars - Australian Made, Lightweight and Tough

This video provides good vision of an ‘animal strike’ with a medium size animal. Happily, the vehicle, the occupants and the animal all survive …..





Another story ….

The day a bullbar saved my life - Unsealed 4X4