Any experience with this refrigerant? (1 Viewer)

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Once you use a non-standard refrigerant you'll have a tough time having a shop service the vehicle later on. Ask the shop that will use this if they will guarantee that you can bring the truck in to have the A/C serviced once they use this to recharge the system. I'll bet the answer is NO.

I've been running R134A in my truck for the last 8 years and contrary to many folks it DOES cool adequately. I've had it as far south as SanJose, Costa Rica. R134a is an acceptable replacement and your vehicle will be serviceable afterward as well.
 
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Amazon.com: Freeze-12 Refrigerant R12 AC Replacement 12oz. Cans: Automotive

Need to recharge my a/c system, looking for a suitable solution, any ideas?

Is your truck R12? If it is R12 then you are ok. If it was R134a then you need to use that. The fittings are totally different on the two. There is little difference between the two chemically and I believe the change was only due to Duponts patent running out on R12. Therefore due to extensive lobbying in D.C. R12 was banned and R134a became the replacement.
 

Callahan Offroad

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Its a stock R12 system. I've read that the molecules don't compress correctly when you switch from r12 to r134a. I don't know i'm not an ac expert.
 
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I believe the change was only due to Duponts patent running out on R12. Therefore due to extensive lobbying in D.C. R12 was banned and R134a became the replacement.
You can still buy R12 , BUT not for mobile use. Total BS system.

My take on this is , If i don't know the installed coolant gas , I us a Yokogawa freon detector to see whats installed and if any sealants.

SEALANTS will kill a system , more than once ,Really watch that the installing gas is just gas , NO added oil OR Sealant. Dye tracers are a must here to be added, AND a sticker for the next Tech 2 Know.

Top ups are asking for trouble, there is a leak ? or if its a long time between , then a real service is due. Retro-fitting to 134A now would be the time, but you can still wrangle cans of R12 (the look is hard, but i saw a few last November, you need good quite eyes).

When I do my AC , mine will be 134A, with all new "O" ring seals , and a new receiver drier for the R134A system.

You must make a smart choice on this closed system. Most buy a new refrigerator when it fails . there is a factor of , once it's broke the fixin cost more than new.

Your AC is very dependable , but self inflected damage could be very expensive to replacement.


VT
 

1972FJ55

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I would keep the system R12, that's what it was designed for. R12 is readily available, we sell 12oz cans for $25.99. Most 60's use 28ozs, so you're looking at less than $80 in refrigerant. You will need Section 609 certification in order to buy it, but that is pretty easy, you pay a $15 fee, pass an open book test and you're good. Lots of 60/62 series have been retro-fitted to R134, with generally good results, but why go to the trouble when you can still get R12. Some things to keep in mind about doing a retro-fit to R134, the R134 molecule is smaller and will leak faster and R12 uses mineral oil, which coats the interior of the hoses, adding one more layer of protection against leaks. PAG and ester oils used on R134a systems don't. R12 will continue to be availabe for the forseeable future, demand lessens each year as fewer and fewer cars are on the road using it, and many shops continue to retro-fit anything that comes in. If the system has a leak, find and fix it so you don't waste the refrigerant and money.
 
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I think that freeze 12 is a blend of propane and some other stuff. I would not run it. R134 works but it does not have the BTU carrying capabilities. If you put a thermometer in the center vent you will be lucky to hit 40 degrees. With my R12 I can regularly hit 33 degrees.
 
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Contamination

Is the #1 reason for a lot of a/c failure it eats up seals and tends to cause hoses to leak.in the years i have been servicing a/c system the newer system that carries R134a can be just as cold in comparison to a good r12.stick with what you got if the system is r12 stay with it and vice versa,if something fails like a compressor or a leak in the condenser or evaporator you have the choice of doing a change over all you need to remember is you have to charge less with R134a about 10%-15% and never use ester oil which they said is compatible in both R12 and R134a in my experience it always backfires down the road i would use PAG oil and flush the entire system before adding refrigerant and oil.i hope this gives you some idea.:D

John
 

Trollhole

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I'm running Freeze 12 in two FJ60's and have used it in all my R-12 vehicles.
It is non-flamable ( no propane ) and works as well as R-12 in the Az heat.
I've been using it well over ten years with no failures or complaints
material data safety sheet:
http://www.technicalchemical.com/msds/6000.pdf
What he says.

All r-12 systems I've done have all been switched over to freeze 12. Awesome stuff. I don't know why people are going to 134-a when you don't get as good of cooling as you do with freeze 12 or r-12.

My 2 cents.
 
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Stick with what you have. I've got R12. Last year i was near Fresno in 110 degree heat when I found out my AC wasn't working. I went to a local shop and paid about $70 for the guy to recharge the sysem with R12. I think he said the stuff costs around $50/lb. Somewhere there's a leak so every 4-5 years I have to get the system recharged. I picked his brain for a bit and this is what he said:
"I changed my late mdel Chevy truck from R134 to R12 because it works better. Espcecially up here in the heat. About that leak in your system; if you had a slow leak in a tire that you had to fill every few weeks, you wouldn't take the tire back or get a new one would you? Nope, you'd just keep filling the tire until you wore it out."
 
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Remember R12 and Freeze 12 are NOT the same thing.

The way a shop explained it to me was "We use Freeze 12 in a vehicle that will be scrapped soon because once it has Freeze 12 we won't touch it again."

I'd recharge with R12 if the system had it and I felt so inclined but I'd NEVER use Freeze 12 because of the uncertainty of future servicing. Even my FJ55 is running R134a.
 

lcwizard

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My 86 ford F350 has been running it 15 years now and my FJ60 , 10 years. Your right, someday they'll be scrapped, but not because of the the AC not working.
You'll find shops that swear by it and other just to afraid to try.
One thing I know is that it's much cheaper to go Freeze 12 than replace a R-12
system with 134. In a place like AZ an R134 retrofit usually requires a larger condenser and operate at much higher pressures putting more load on all the components. Freeze 12 requires nothing more than an evacuation of the R-12
and even works with the same lubricants as the R-12 system. The Freeze 12
will cool as well as R-12 without system mods where a R134 won't come close without replacing components




Remember R12 and Freeze 12 are NOT the same thing.

The way a shop explained it to me was "We use Freeze 12 in a vehicle that will be scrapped soon because once it has Freeze 12 we won't touch it again."

I'd recharge with R12 if the system had it and I felt so inclined but I'd NEVER use Freeze 12 because of the uncertainty of future servicing. Even my FJ55 is running R134a.
 
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My 86 ford F350 has been running it 15 years now and my FJ60 , 10 years. Your right, someday they'll be scrapped, but not because of the the AC not working.
You'll find shops that swear by it and other just to afraid to try.
One thing I know is that it's much cheaper to go Freeze 12 than replace a R-12
system with 134. In a place like AZ an R134 retrofit usually requires a larger condenser and operate at much higher pressures putting more load on all the components. Freeze 12 requires nothing more than an evacuation of the R-12
and even works with the same lubricants as the R-12 system. The Freeze 12
will cool as well as R-12 without system mods where a R134 won't come close without replacing components
My comments are not related to how well it works but rather to the serviceability of the system once you charge it with Freeze 12. If you're OK with that then use it, if not then do what is necessary to keep the truck serviceable as far as the A/C system is concerned. My FJ55 and the BJ60 are both using the OEM systems with R134a and they both cool adequately, even in AZ.

Are there A/C shops in AZ that will come back and service the A/C system AFTER you have charged and been running with Freeze 12?

In B.C. and any other area I've asked at they tell me that yes, they will charge your system with Freeze 12 but that will be the LAST work they will do on that system. You are right though in that it is a cheaper substitute than retrofitting with R134a. I was offered Freeze 12 when I charged the FJ55 because it is an older vehicle and I asked the question about future service and that's when I was told the full story.
 

lcwizard

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I've had no problems with servicing after the change. Every two to three years I have the system checked and refreshed. I use two different AC guys, neither has ever expressed doubts with the product.
When I converted my 60 to freeze 12 the compressor was on it's way out but I ran another year on it
with the Freeze 12 before putting in a new compressor and recharging the system again.
My last system service was two years ago. I'll bring it in again when things get a little warmer.
As of now it still blows cold
 

Callahan Offroad

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I had no idea this would inspire such a large debate!!!

my goodness!

To be honest its starting to be summer in saint louis and its getting hot in that truck, good motorcycle weather though. Thanks for all the responses everyone!
 

Spook50

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I'm tempted to try F12, but I've still got four 10oz cans of DuPont R12 in my garage. I just need to get my hands on equipment to evacuate and recharge my system (wanna use the stuff that's still in there, and just top off if needed from a 10oz can).

Bitch of it is finding the equipment is almost as hard as finding the actual R12 in small quantities anymore.
 

1972FJ55

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I'm tempted to try F12, but I've still got four 10oz cans of DuPont R12 in my garage. I just need to get my hands on equipment to evacuate and recharge my system (wanna use the stuff that's still in there, and just top off if needed from a 10oz can).

Bitch of it is finding the equipment is almost as hard as finding the actual R12 in small quantities anymore.

If your system is still operating, just a bit low, you don't need to evac you can just top it off, using commonly available manifold gauges. If it's low, you'll see bubbles in the sight-glass, when the compressor is engaged. Slowly add R12 until the bubbles disappear and you're good.
 

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