Another tire question... (1 Viewer)

[Madtiger]

Sorry......no P-metric tire looks as good as BFG KO2s!

 

[gaijin]

Thanks all for the overwhelming response...I knew there were several layers to this as I could not find a clear answer. Some excellent points made, I don't know how to respond to each specific comment, but I will try and touch upon each. I was off the grid this weekend so I didn't get a chance to respond sooner.

For starters, I'm after the KO2 simply because they would look 'cool' on the 200 sitting next to my Tacoma...I don't NEED to get them. I was completely unaware of the load ranges and recommended PSI given the different sizes, etc. Eye opening to say the least. Does anyone have a 2016+ with larger than stock KO2's mounted that can share photos?

I drove the Tacoma with KO2's all winter, and they seemed to do pretty well in the snow and ice...I'm a frequent bad weather winter driver in both Maine and Montana so I do care. I'm even considering getting a dedicated winter set of tires with studs, does anyone else use studded tires? If I were to do this an use the factory 18 inch wheels for winter tires, would I be doing myself a favor moving to a 17 inch wheel for 3 season driving?

I also discovered that we no longer have the factory installed tires (not a fan), I'm currently running LT275/65R18 Toyo Open Country AT2! These Toyo's did not hold up well...evidence of dry rot and cracking with less than 25k miles on them. I believe the spare tire is the original factory size. So it looks like I will be buying 5 tires this time around. I'm fine with that approach anyway.

So after reading everything, I'm still struggling with what to buy. I want something more aggressive looking than what was suggested (geolanders) but it sounds like I would be wise to research p-metric tires? Then comes the 'where do I buy them' & 'any good rebates right now' questions...

I have one immediate cause for concern that you should address immediately - do not pass GO, do not collect $200:

The Recommended Cold Tire Inflation Pressure for those LT275/65R18 tires on your LC200 is 45psi Front/Rear.

NOTE: IF YOU ARE RUNNING THOSE TIRES AT THE DOOR STICKER RECOMMENDATION OF 33PSI, YOU ARE OPERATING AT A DANGEROUSLY UNDERINFLATED PRESSURE WHICH COULD LEAD TO CATASTROPHIC TIRE FAILURE.

No matter what tire you decide on for the future, please make sure your current tires are set to 45psi Cold.

HTH

 

[SEAWOLF]

I appreciate the concern, I have them at 42.

To make matters worse I found a nail in the rear passenger tire today...I can't win.

So...need tires yesterday...

 

[gaijin]

I appreciate the concern, I have them at 42.

To make matters worse I found a nail in the rear passenger tire today...I can't win.

So...need tires yesterday...

So... you're going to pump them up to 45psi, right?

 

[SEAWOLF]

Yes, I can/will but I'm ready to just junk these and the tire shop is 1000 feet from my house. Rig hasn't moved from the driveway since I got home last night.

 

[rscoleman]

I feel your pain of tire choice. Wednesday my LC goes to NTB for new tires. I decided on stock size Nitto Terra Grappler G2. I wanted close as possible to stock ride but a better look. I made it 44K on from factory tires. The G2 are 65K tire in 285/60R18 120S XL. The factory tires are 116 Load. If I wanted to move to 285/65 load was 125 on everything I could find. I only buying 4 tires and will keep the spare with factory tire till next set of tires. I will probably replace it then with that tire set. I place Terra Grappler on my Toyota T100 4x4 about 4 months ago and I like them. Good luck with your choice.

 

[bloc]

Look, before you tell me to use the search button...I wouldn’t be writing this if it produced any definitive results. Besides, it’s not like the internet is going to run out of space...

The reason search isn’t useful is there are dozens of threads covering the same thing.

That said, you might consider a set of 17s and 285/70/17. You can get these in p-metric and run even less pressure than stock, they stay light and compliant, and there are some AT tires in this size. I run the toyo open country AT2, and am MUCH happier with the ride quality than my old KO2s in 285/65/18.

TireRack did review on LT-C BFG KO2 vs. other P-metric ATs: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=249

Surprisingly, KO2 are pretty quiet, pretty decent in rain, and NOT the worst fuel economy offender.

Test results graphs: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=249

Another tire that should be included is the Michelin Defender, which in STOCK size, has excellent weight, great traction, and comes in "XL" designation which means that it can carry more weight than regular P-metric, which is perfect for something heavy like our LCs.

No doubt that G015 is a great tire. (KO2 LT surprisingly did fairly well too.) I just can’t explain the relatively poor fuel economy of G015, worst than even LT KO2!! This is where i think the Defender would be a good alternative to the G015...but Defender does look minivan-ish.

Their loop was six miles.. nowhere near long enough to make an accurate judgement on fuel efficiency impact.

They also mention they’d reprise the test during the winter with those tires.. did that ever get done? 3-peak designation means something but frankly can cover a huge array of competency.

 

[TLC2013]

Some Manufacturers offer a trial period, Falcon and General Grabber are two that come to mind. I swapped out my grabber ATXs within the trial period for a larger size. Still had to pay to mount and balance the new tires.
Since you are looking for that perfect tire for your situation and the wife I would recommend settling on a tire who’s manufacturer allows for a trial period so you have the option to switch out if you are not happy.

 

[Madtiger]

The reason search isn’t useful is there are dozens of threads covering the same thing.

That said, you might consider a set of 17s and 285/70/17. You can get these in p-metric and run even less pressure than stock, they stay light and compliant, and there are some AT tires in this size. I run the toyo open country AT2, and am MUCH happier with the ride quality than my old KO2s in 285/65/18.




Their loop was six miles.. nowhere near long enough to make an accurate judgement on fuel efficiency impact.

They also mention they’d reprise the test during the winter with those tires.. did that ever get done? 3-peak designation means something but frankly can cover a huge array of competency.

The question i have is this.......if you’re going P-metric, then is AT tire any better than, say, Michelin Defender? Yes, P-metric ATs May look more aggressive but are they really better than Defender? Besides look, What is a P-metric AT have that cannot be done with Defender?

Michelin Defender will likely outperform any P-metric AT in every aspect...even in toughness i would bet. Defender P-metric are very tough tires.

For me, personally, if i go AT, then i go LT for the toughness off-road. Thus, i went with BFG KO2 because of the famed sidewall strength (load range D and E). IF i did not want off-road toughness, then Michelin Defender would be my (only) choice. Next time around, i am even debating getting Defender LT-E in 275/65/18 size.

As for TireRack fuel test, i have no idea. Just posting an interesting tidbit from the test that was surprisingly for me. If i was gonna waste gas, then i might as well get something that looks the part!

 

[rscoleman]

This might have already been shared Recommended Tire Pressure for Cars, Tire Pressure Charts, Tools and Calculators - TirePressure.com but most of info on pressure to size and load rating is on this web site. For those of us that are math challenged.

 

[bloc]

The question i have is this.......if you’re going P-metric, then is AT tire any better than, say, Michelin Defender? Yes, P-metric ATs May look more aggressive but are they really better than Defender? Besides look, What is a P-metric AT have that cannot be done with Defender?

Michelin Defender will likely outperform any P-metric AT in every aspect...even in toughness i would bet. Defender P-metric are very tough tires.

For me, personally, if i go AT, then i go LT for the toughness off-road. Thus, i went with BFG KO2 because of the famed sidewall strength (load range D and E). IF i did not want off-road toughness, then Michelin Defender would be my (only) choice. Next time around, i am even debating getting Defender LT-E in 275/65/18 size.

As for TireRack fuel test, i have no idea. Just posting an interesting tidbit from the test that was surprisingly for me. If i was gonna waste gas, then i might as well get something that looks the part!

I’ve used defenders in mud before and frankly they were terrible at self cleaning. Other than that, yes, they are fantastic tires. I’m a HUGE fan of Michelin and they are my default first choice if they make a tire that does what I need.
For my use p-metrics are a great option. I typically drive 900 miles to get to the trails and mileage matters. And when I’m there I don’t push the tires too hard anyway. These tires return 17-18 on the freeway and my KO2s struggled to show 15 all else being equal. For a while my truck was also my daily so ride quality in town mattered as well.
For now the AT2 in a p-metric gives the lug size and mud performance I need while ticking all the other boxes. I have torn one sidewall but I believe that would have happened with an LT tire too.. it was a pretty gnarly rock.
Eventually I’ll find a suspension system that does the other things I want and it’ll also be able to dampen the heavier/stiffer LT tires. At that point I’ll be considering a c-load LT tire to see how they do.
Either way that article is great! We just need to be careful about the conclusions we draw from it.

 

[Madtiger]

Good luck finding LT-C!! I can’t find one in and around our size.

And even then, LT-C BFG KO2 has a weaker sidewall (2-ply)...so that sucks.

So, it looks like i am stuck with KO2 at stock size...since it is Load Range D. Michelin Defender LT in 275 and 285 are both Load Range E. So, although i may gain in on-road performance, the ride may be worst than what i have now with Load Range D??

 

[bloc]

Good luck finding LT-C!! I can’t find one in and around our size.

And even then, LT-C BFG KO2 has a weaker sidewall (2-ply)...so that sucks.

So, it looks like i am stuck with KO2 at stock size...since it is Load Range D. Michelin Defender LT in 275 and 285 are both Load Range E. So, although i may gain in on-road performance, the ride may be worst than what i have now with Load Range D??

They do make a 285/70/17 LT-C ko2 though I haven’t looked into availability yet. Also no white lettering. C is “only” 2 ply sidewall but should be better than p-metric and that sidewall is part of why they will return better mileage than E or D.
Tire pressure between E and D will be very close, your only negative effect would be a slight increase in carcass stiffness and weight. Your stock dampers are tuned for p-metric carcass, weight, and pressure (Tire spring rate). Basically unless you are talking a big difference like the weight between E and C I don’t think you’d notice much. As it is plenty of people love 285/65/18 LT-E on stock suspension but I might be more picky. I notice lots of jutter and signs the dampers struggle with the weight and stiffness.

 

[Madtiger]

They do make a 285/70/17 LT-C ko2 though I haven’t looked into availability yet. Also no white lettering. C is “only” 2 ply sidewall but should be better than p-metric and that sidewall is part of why they will return better mileage than E or D.
Tire pressure between E and D will be very close, your only negative effect would be a slight increase in carcass stiffness and weight. Your stock dampers are tuned for p-metric carcass, weight, and pressure (Tire spring rate). Basically unless you are talking a big difference like the weight between E and C I don’t think you’d notice much. As it is plenty of people love 285/65/18 LT-E on stock suspension but I might be more picky. I notice lots of jutter and signs the dampers struggle with the weight and stiffness.

Well, crap, @gaijin scared the crap out of me with 285/65/18 touching KDSS stuff when using stock 18” rims. I don’t want to change rims...too much $$$ investment. So, oh well, 1st world problems.

Good point about tire pressure not that much different b/w Load Range D & E.

Personally, i have love my KO2 in stock size. No hit on highway feel. MPGs did go down by about 1 mpg, as expected.

 

[bloc]

Well, crap, @gaijin scared the crap out of me with 285/65/18 touching KDSS stuff when using stock 18” rims. I don’t want to change rims...too much $$$ investment. So, oh well, 1st world problems.

Good point about tire pressure not that much different b/w Load Range D & E.

Personally, i have love my KO2 in stock size. No hit on highway feel. MPGs did go down by about 1 mpg, as expected.

285/65/18 ko2 on stock 2013 wheels JUST cleared everything on my truck. OE strut spacer in front is the only mod. KDSS had room, maybe 1/8”. Same story at the rear of the wheel well on the mud flap. There was not room to run chains in front if you need to do that.
My 285/70/17 AT2s on rock warriors barely rubbed at the rear of one front wheel well in reverse when hitting a bump, but cleared completely after about 5000 miles.

 

[navydivedoc]

Dan, check out General grabber APT 275/75r18. P rated so saves about 10 lbs/corner. OEM on the Titan, light for CAFE compliance. I was very happy with them on my 2018. No rub, fill the wells appropriately. No hit to mileage. This post I talked about them in #5 and a pic post #9.