Another EFI Relay Thread..HELP!! (1 Viewer)

[sailwesterly]

This is not the first time I have had trouble with the relay so I am fairly familiar with the trouble shooting procedure and have followed all suggestions, (I think) this time around but something is different.

First it just died when driving down the road, not after shut down. I immediately, and confidently get out of the vehicle to swap the relay for a spare I always carry, slam the hood fully confident I will be off down the road. Nothing noda, just cranks and cranks. Much to my surprise, no CE light so I think, huh must be the cheap Auto Zone relay will order Toyota tomorrow. Pull out my trusty jumper wire and happiness is felt by all with the cheery glow of the CE light confirming we are off and running. A couple days later Toyota comes through with my relay and I installed it and still no go, no CE light and crank and crank no start.

What am I missing, why would the jumper wire work fine but not relay 1 - 2 or 3?

I know this issue comes up frequently and I apologize for doing so yet again, but I am stuck and for the life of me can't figure out what I have missed in the diagnostic phase. Thanks so much for suffering through this one more time, I patiently await the wealth of knowledge of the board...

Its a 91' if that has any bearing

 

[bhmmapping]

have you upgraded the wires going to the relay? I have not done it so I can't give a lot of details, but it is pretty well documented on here if you search. IIRC the wires going to the relay are too small and have to be upgraded to solve the 3fe relay problem.

 

[Beowulf]

Check the relay connections and, as post #2 stated, replace the EFI relay wires with heavier gauge.

-B-

 

[sailwesterly]

No, I have not upgraded the wiring going to the relay. I guess what I can't get my feeble head around is why it is jump-able if it is an underlying wiring issue? With the jumper wire between 2-4 it works, but with a good relay installed that brings 1 and 3 into play would that be a reason for no go, what does that side of the equation offer to the process? I am an electrical dunce so I can't see how inclusion of 1&3 screw the system when omission makes everyone happy???

 

[groover]

similar

my 92 was behaving the same way. research the fuel pressure regulator. I replaced mine and things are back to normal. Easy job.

 

[Timoss]

I would also consider the circuit opening relay. On an fj62, at least, it can cause the symptoms you describe. But I don't have the wiring diagram in front of me and I can't recall if successfully jumping the efi terminals would rule out the COR, so just a thought.

Timoss
88 62
97 80

 

[landtank]

I had the relay problem with my son's 91 a quarter mile from the dealer where I bought it. I'm not convinced the wire trick is the solution but I haven't had time to properly diagnose the problem either.

One thing I can say is that relay gets damn hot for some reason.

 

[4xoddic]

have you upgraded the wires going to the relay? I have not done it so I can't give a lot of details, but it is pretty well documented on here if you search. IIRC the wires going to the relay are too small and have to be upgraded to solve the 3fe relay problem.

X 2

For those of you with awnry 3FEs, may I suggest searching here on MUD, or the other group you should belong to: 3FE : Toyota 3FE group (FJ62, '91-92 FJ80) for the wiring how-to documentation.

IF it's not the relay, it's likely the wiring. Geeeze, it's at least what, 16 YO? IF ( BIG IF) I recall correctly, others have sourced Toyota part #s to repair the wires in the relay socket. Don't recall if CDan was the source for the OEM parts. Either the relay, or the socket (Maybe Both?), will give you bizarre, erratic behavior (as in FJ leans into a corner, relay leans in socket, contact is broken = engine hiccups, FJ comes out of corner, relay settles back into socket & vrrrroom, away she goes).

SEARCH is your friend for this fiend!

Happy Halloween!

 

[jonheld]

I guess what I can't get my feeble head around is why it is jump-able if it is an underlying wiring issue?

Because you're only jumping out the load side of the relay. Your problem could be on the logic side which won't close the relay, regardless of how many you try.

If putting in the jumper works 100% of the time, then you are on the right track. Most likely a poor connection at the fuse box (pins 1 and 3 are the logic side with pin 1 being ground) or at connector EB1 which lives down and toward the firewall below the fusebox. The ECU closes the EFI relay and the CE light is a tally at this point.

The circuit opening relay is downstream of all this and is most likely not a factor.

Again, if your CE light comes on and the truck fires up then all related parts are functioning as they should be. If the CE light doesn't light and simply pulling the EFI relay and installing the jumper fixes your problem, then it must be EFI relay logic related. Another possibility is that the load side of the relay contacts in the fuse box are corroded and the jumper that you're using makes better contact for some reason. Either way, you know where to look and how to fix it.

 

[sailwesterly]

Thank you all!!! I will tear into the socket and underlying wiring tomorrow. I genuinely appreciate the insights.

 

[alkaline747trio]

Do you also get a hesitation/stumble when in O/D lockup? Tries to cut out at stoplights? What is the issue with running a jumper wire all the time?

 

[jonheld]

What is the issue with running a jumper wire all the time?

Dead battery in 2 or 3 days, shortened life of O2 sensor heaters, etcd, etc.
BTDT.

 

[alkaline747trio]

Gotcha. I can't find the efi-wire guide on the yahoo 3FE, happen to have a link? Also, what/where is the best relay to use as replacement?

 

[voorland80]

EFI relay

I had the relay problem with my son's 91 a quarter mile from the dealer where I bought it. I'm not convinced the wire trick is the solution but I haven't had time to properly diagnose the problem either.

One thing I can say is that relay gets damn hot for some reason.

Here's what I did (post #16)
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/220050-1990-landcruiser-wont-start.html#post3430823

 

[jonheld]

Gotcha. I can't find the efi-wire guide on the yahoo 3FE, happen to have a link? Also, what/where is the best relay to use as replacement?

Not sure what you're looking for, but have a look at the writeup I did on my in my sig line. I list Toyo part#s and such. If you're looking for something specific let me know and I'll try to get the answer.

 

[alkaline747trio]

Got an pictures of what's going on inside the fuse box? Is OEM yota the best type of relay? Is there an 'upgraded' relay that works better than factory?

 

[Beowulf]

Got an pictures of what's going on inside the fuse box? Is OEM yota the best type of relay? Is there an 'upgraded' relay that works better than factory?

Alky,
Somewhere I have seen a nice write-up on the EFI wiring upgrade. There were several pics. In another thread there was a discussion of "upgraded" relays with part numbers and sources. See if you can find that information and request that this is added to the 80-Series FAQ.

If you cannot find it then maybe someone will do a FAQ write-up based on this thread.

I believe Landtank is dealing with this issue on his son's FJ80.

-B-

 

[alkaline747trio]

B, was that on the forum or a link elsewhere? Remember which section it may have been in?

 

[FrankTorres]

This is what I did with with the rewire back in 2002...

Access the underside of the relay/fuse box.
I believe you need to unbolt a few things to get this far, 10 to 15 minutes with a 10mm.
There is a 12 gauge wire, yellow with a red tracer that goes from the EFI relay to EB1.
Undo the loom that goes to the EB1 connector.
EB1 is the first connector about 12 inches from the EFI relay, that one needs to be changed to 10 gauge.
There is a 12 gauge wire, red with a yellow tracer that goes from the EFI fuse to the EFI relay, that needs to be changed to 10 gauge.
At first I tried and failed to remove the female connectors that fits in the box for the relay and fuse to plug in.
I just cut the wires leaving about 1/2" and crimped the 10 gauge using heatshrink and rewraped the loom in 3m vinyl electrical tape.
If you wire harness loom is brittle replace it. Mine fell apart like saltine crackers.

Hope this help, good luck.

 

[Beowulf]

B, was that on the forum or a link elsewhere? Remember which section it may have been in?

I am positive it was here in the 80-Section of IH8MUD and I realize that searching for that thread is going to be a problem. I cannot remember who started or contributed. I vaguely remember that Landpimp offered some advice and maybe an alternative relay. That's about all I got...

Here is a quote from CruiserDan from 2004:
"There is a 12 gauge wire, red with a yellow tracer that goes from the EFI fuse to the EFI relay. That needs to be changed to 10 gauge. Then there is a 12 gauge wire, yellow with a red tracer that goes from the EFI relay to EB1. That also needs to be changed to 10 gauge. It is a good idea to replace the EFI relay at the same time (90987-02004-83)".

Do an advanced search using some combination of the following keywords:

"90987-02004" (This is the EFI relay p/n)
"Red yellow tracer" + EFI (This should find you other threads discussing the fix)
"EB1" + EFI (same as above)

The relay with the copper wire vs. the OEM diode is by GP Sorensen, part # 41-5002.

There was a web page on the old 80s-Cool but that gives a 404 error now. You might be able to find it in one of those archive sites that keep old web pages for years. I can't remember the name now but a little ingenuity should get you there fairly quickly.

You could have blown a efi fuse...you must have a CEL for the motor to start, if you do not, that is an indication that something is wrong.

The relay is by GP Sorensen, part # 41-5002.

I hope for your $ake its not the igniter/coil.

Frank seems to know this problem pretty well. Maybe he will volunteer to help you with a write-up. We *really* need this written up with pictures and added to the 80-Series FAQ. Every FJ80 owner will be faced with this problem at some time.

-B-