Another early 2F question... (2 Viewers)

[Oakley40]

I found a pretty complete 2F on CL for $350, that was supposedly running that came out of an '75 FJ55. (Block serial number is 2F 026033 and head is a 61030). The PO said when he bought the 55 a couple years ago, the PPO told him the motor was recently rebuilt and that he was having a hard time getting the Aisan carb tuned, so he put on the Weber. He also said he has only driven the 55 around town since he bought it and it ran fine.

My plan was to open it up, survey for any obvious issues, then change out the easy to get to gaskets if all seemed okay. Mind you, my wrenching experience is limited, but this forum has been a BIG help in getting my confidence up to tackle something like this on my own. That being said, I don't have eye yet for what is good, bad, or out of place.

When I pulled off the head, I found what appear to be flat pistons in a domed piston engine, then I thought it might be possible that the PPO milled the head to accommodate the flat pistons, but I don't know the difference. Thoughts?

That I can tell, the cylinders are not grooved, but there is some pitting. I'm guessing the pitting would make it a candidate for boring, which if the head is not correct for the flat pistons, the block becomes a boat anchor, as I've read.

If the block is a loss, what early 2F parts can I salvage to use on a later FJ60 2F? Like I mentioned, the motor is pretty complete with the 4spd bell housing, I have the Weber carb, and a couple of Aisan carbs he through in, the tins, a new alternator, water pump, etc.

Any insight or help would be appreciated.

Dave

 

[thebigredrocker]

I know didly squat about engines, however I do know a trusted source who has posted lots of good info. You can search for stuff FJ40jim has posted about engines while you wait for people to chime in.

Here’s a couple

A stock US-market 2F manufactured from 01/75 to 7/80 has domed pistons and open chamber head.

I have seen plenty of 2F engines with flattops and open chamber. The have 6:1CR and no power. Toyota didn't build em that way. It's the result of cracking one of the relatively crack- prone close chamber heads and replacing with an indestructible open head from the JY.

At least, that's what I've seen.

 

[thebigredrocker]

Judging from the goop on the manifolds, I’d bet a manifold leak was present. My hunch is Aisan carbs get yanked when vacuum leaks are present. The poor running engine could also have been a distributor issue. What dissy were they using?

Is the head an open chamber?

 

[Oakley40]

Looks to be the stock distributor and I couldn't tell you if it's an open chamber head. There were a number of vacuum ports open, but I'm not sure if that happened when it was pulled out or it ran that way.

 

[Poser]

Is the head an open chamber?

The one in the picture above is.

 

[lc69hunter]

Just learned something. Many years ago (pre me discovering MUD), when I built up my current 2F, I got a block out of a 77, bored it 30 over, bought flat pistons, and a regular head, and built it from scratch (didn't know about domed pistons and such). Had everything dynamically balanced, threw a Holley on, and it still runs like a scared rabbit.

Does this mean I could have gotten more out of it with domed pistons?

 

[Poser]

Just learned something. Many years ago (pre me discovering MUD), when I built up my current 2F, I got a block out of a 77, bored it 30 over, bought flat pistons, and a regular head, and built it from scratch (didn't know about domed pistons and such). Had everything dynamically balanced, threw a Holley on, and it still runs like a scared rabbit.

Does this mean I could have gotten more out of it with domed pistons?

No idea what you have going on, since it does not make any sense.



I have operated Land Cruisers with the 6:1 CR combo (flat top pistons/open chamber head) like JimC talks about/was quoted from an earlier thread, and they are gutless.

 

[thebigredrocker]

@Oakley40 as you probably noticed, Poser verified above you do have an open chamber head. So it was rebuilt into a gutless 6:1 compression 2F, which may be why it got yanked. In case you don’t know, Poser is an expert so count your blessings he’s watching your thread. I’m pretty sure he owns a cruiser shop, so he may be able to source EXACTLY what you need. I know he’s the go-to guy for disc brake conversion kits.

At some point you’ll want to verify if that dissy is desireable. I think it’s nearly a consensus on mud that a FJ60 distributor swap is a Top Notch upgrade on a 2F. Food for thought anyway.

Good call on pulling the head

 

[3_puppies]

I thought I heard/read a while ago that the open chamber head could be milled/shaved .1" and it would work with the flat top pistons.
or maybe I was dreaming that.

 

[thebigredrocker]

Slightly related to what 3Puppies mentioned, I think

I have a rebuilt 75 2f with new flat top pistons with open chamber head pistons have a 75 marked on them i do not know if the head has been shaved will this set up work.

The 75 on the piston is prolly the oversize, .75mm.
It will run, but poorly. CR will be about 6.5:1, unless the head is milled a bunch to get up to 8:1.

You could get an 81-newer head to drop on there. With no milling, that will give 8.43:1.

 

[thebigredrocker]

Oakley40 here’s Another trustworthy source of cruiser info

I've got a '40 here that became mine through series of trades. Right after I took possesion of it, one of the POs proudly told me that it was a "real hotrod" with "flat top pistons to make it faster". What a moron. Sure enough it has flat tops in a '78 (open chamber head. This explains why it is such a gutless wonder compared to a properly set up 2F.

I'm preparing to yank it out in favor of a full on 2F I have languishing in on of my project rigs. From past experience, I know that I'll have more (MUCH MORE) pulling power in 2nd gear than this engine can manage in 1st.

Eventually I'll go through this engine and make it right.


Mark...

 

[thebigredrocker]

Oakley40 I found a good discussion of the issue you are faced with.
Low Compression ?

Good stuff here too.
Shaving a late 2F head


I’d be curious if you measure the CC’s of your open chamber head, what they are.

 

[FJ40Jim]

Everything in the above pics looks like 1975 2F: block, open chamber head, crappy manifolds, vac retard points dissy, etc.
Except the pistons which are 81-87 flattops w/ .5mm overbore, and the Weber carb.

Now that the head is off, the next thing to do is roll the block over, get the pan off to inspect the cam & lifters.

 

[lc69hunter]

No idea what you have going on, since it does not make any sense.



I have operated Land Cruisers with the 6:1 CR combo (flat top pistons/open chamber head) like JimC talks about/was quoted from an earlier thread, and they are gutless.

Poser, what I meant was that I got 2 bare blocks from Tim Hill, and decided which one was best. The one I used was according the block serial number, from a 77. I bought pistons from SOR, an RV cam and Holley from Downey, some stuff from MAF, a crank and used head and headers from someone, and everything I could salvage off the old F engine, and bought everything else I needed to throw it together from SOR. Do I know what kind of head I have? I haven't a clue. Maybe I just got lucky. I just know it runs well.

I can run all day at 65-70 on the freeway, but need to drop down a gear (still running the 3 spd) pulling a camping trailer over some of the 7-8% grades.

 

[Oakley40]

Thanks for the help @bigredrocker.

Jim, the next step is exactly what I was looking for. I'll pull the pan. Will I be able to see the cam from there or will I have to pull it out?

 

[thebigredrocker]

Link to Domed Piston thread
New USA 75-80 2F oversize pistons, pins, rings

The pistons did come in from Wiseco, .060" oversize, stock dome height. CR increases to 8.2 with the increase in displacement, plus the flat face SBC valves and a .020" mill raises it further to ~8.6:1. These pistons are actually heavier than stock, due to machining constraints. But that just means they are nitrous-ready.

Box o' Pistons:
View attachment 1017120

better view of pistons:
View attachment 1017122

Pistons stuck in a 2F block:
View attachment 1017123

Contact me through mud, or use the "contact" tab on the TLCPerformance.com page to get a piston set of your very own.

 

[4Cruisers]

At some point you’ll want to verify if that dissy is desireable. I think it’s nearly a consensus on mud that a FJ60 distributor swap is a Top Notch upgrade on a 2F. Food for thought anyway.

Installed an FJ60 distributor in the 2F in my '76 FJ40 earlier this year, extremely pleased with the increase in overall performance. I'll be doing the same upgrade to my '71 FJ40 (has a '76 2F already).

 

[Oakley40]

Some more questions:

1. Would an '87 2F head would work with the '75 block and flat pistons?
2. If so, would the intake with EFI from said '87 work as well? The EFI isn't a must, but probably a plus.
3. Is there a difference between an EFI and carb intake?

Thanks guy's...I wish there was a fitment guide that tells what pieces are interchangeable with each other.

 

[Oakley40]

Installed an FJ60 distributor in the 2F in my '76 FJ40 earlier this year, extremely pleased with the increase in overall performance. I'll be doing the same upgrade to my '71 FJ40 (has a '76 2F already).

This is something I will definitely look into in time, just trying to get a workable engine together first.

 

[4Cruisers]

This is something I will definitely look into in time, just trying to get a workable engine together first.

To get ready at least replace the side (pushrod) cover with the dented side cover as you put your engine together. That way you won't have to partially tear things down later.