Another 2F - EFI Build (1 Viewer)

[D'Animal]

If this does not go in the hardcore section. The supermods can move it. I have a feeling that there are going to be a lot of post from Mace and Matt Mcinnes.

I plan on build a 2F + 3EFI engine. I have all the parts and have already ordered the gasket sets from Cruise Dan. The lower end gasket set for the 2F and the Valve Grind set for the 3FE.

Here is what I'm thinking about starting with.

2F that was a Man A Fre High Performance Engine. 3 of the lower rod bearings seized. Main bearings were are unharmed as well as the block but it will require a different 2F crankshaft.

Here is the 2F and the pistons compared to normal 2F pistons.

 

[D'Animal]

Here is the MAF HIPO piston in relationship to the 3EFI head.

 

[D'Animal]

This is not a high pressure cooling vent right?

Just kidding, I have a different 3FE head. This is just for mock up to see if I can do this with the MAF HIPO pistons.

 

[D'Animal]

I guess I need to assemble the lower 2F and put the head on and check the squish zone tolerances.

 

[Sputnik40]

Damn, that's going to be an interesting compression ratio - so what is it going to be? I think this is totally a hard core topic - fuel injection was one of my best mods.

I can't tell you the amount of pain I suffered trying to push a JC built Aisin up steep inclines - pure heck! No offence to JC, but a carb just can't compare to FI.

 

[Mace]

Close damn fit or not quite??

I am gonna enjoy talking to the folks at maf on monday. It will be interesting to see how much their pistons increase the compression ratio. As we talked before. It might REALLY bump the compression up with the stroker motor..

Donno, are those oversize pistons?

 

[D'Animal]

Are those oversize pistons?

Do your really think .040 will make that big of difference?


LOL!


They fit nice in the pocket but the head is not on the block. That means that the bore and the pistons may not line up with the head.


Just thinking ahead.

 

[tehcruiser]

Cool and interesting build.
Do you have any guesstimates on the compression ratio?
What octane gas are you gonna be running?

 

[D'Animal]

Cool and interesting build.
Do you have any guesstimates on the compression ratio?
What octane gas are you gonna be running?

I'll leave the technical stuff like compresion ratios to Mace & Matt. They are the brains behind this. I'm just doing the grunt work.

I plan on running 89 octane and maybe 91 if I take this to the race track or the Hammers in Johnson Valley.

 

[matt.mcinnes]

I'll leave the technical stuff like compresion ratios to Mace & Matt. They are the brains behind this. I'm just doing the grunt work.

I plan on running 89 octane and maybe 91 if I take this to the race track or the Hammers in Johnson Valley.

I know now why your Gas/Petrol is cheap Our octane start at 91 for the cheap stuff the good stuff is 98 Octane. There is good news though I'm sure there as here you can buy additive octane boost

The higher you run compression the more Octane you will need. But with those piston, which looking at the pic's I think will fit just fine with the kidney shape of the 3FE head, we will need some careful calculation to make sure compression is not too high. You need to check though to be 100% sure though that there is no chance of the pistion hitting the head.
I would hazzard a guess that the proper 3FE MAF piston has a slightly smaller or kidney shaped raised section. Mixing the 2F piston with a 3FE head I think will give you a higher compression than the proposed MAF figure MAF has of 9:1 the million doller question is by how much.

Mace or D'Animal can you CC a late 2F head with small chambers? Or do you have the figures? Also the 3FE

Has the 3FE head you intend to use ever been machined/skimmed if so how much and the block too?

Pushing to a higher compression it maybe worth asking how much to have the block O-ringed while your having the bottom end done and sourcing a high quality graphite gasket as you have as much or more risk of blowing a head gasket than I do on my low compression ETI. Also up grading the head bolts as I have, so you can torque the head down tighter maybe worth concidering.

 

[D'Animal]

The pistons in the 3FE that the head came off of were flat.

 

[Moby]

Overhanger is running ~9.3:1 compression in his otherwise stock rebuilt 3FE and he has detonation issues on 91: IH8MUD.com Forum - View Single Post - 3FE better than 2F. I think you'll be over that with the high compression pistons and the extra displacement. You might want to consider a cam with more overlap than stock to bring down the dynamic compression ratio or a J&S Safeguard to retard the timing if/when detontation occurs.

 

[matt.mcinnes]

D'Animal are you able to buy octane boosters in Cali?

Is Premium 91 Octane the max?

Is this rig going to comply with emissions too? Or strictly a off road play thing?

 

[D'Animal]

D'Animal are you able to buy octane boosters in Cali?

Is Premium 91 Octane the max?

Is this rig going to comply with emissions too? Or strictly a off road play thing?

It will be going in the 1974 FJ 45 Extended Cab Build I am doing. Pre-Smog.

You can get 91 octane from most any petrol station pump. If you want higher you have to go to a company that sells racing fuel or the airport.

 

[matt.mcinnes]

It will be going in the 1974 FJ 45 Extended Cab Build I am doing. Pre-Smog.

You can get 91 octane from most any petrol station pump. If you want higher you have to go to a company that sells racing fuel or the airport.

Is Octane booster such as these an option

Octane Boosters

Thats $10 extra on every tank of Premium though.

Guess this will not be the daily driver though

 

[Fast Eddy]

If octane's going to be an issue, you could stock up on a barrel of e85 and keep it in the shop. With your travels, it's not that hard to find. 105 octane.

National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition

 

[stereophile33]

Overhanger is running ~9.3:1 compression in his otherwise stock rebuilt 3FE and he has detonation issues on 91: IH8MUD.com Forum - View Single Post - 3FE better than 2F. I think you'll be over that with the high compression pistons and the extra displacement. You might want to consider a cam with more overlap than stock to bring down the dynamic compression ratio or a J&S Safeguard to retard the timing if/when detontation occurs.

this is a good statement, however there is more at work on and engine that helps detonation resistance.

With chambers likes ours and large squish bands we should be looking at setting the piston to head clearance at 30-35 thou.. The added squish will really aid in burning the extra fuel.

I have mainly worked with Volvo 4 cylinders with similar style motors. We can make 10.8 2v motors run on 87 octane and get 30 mpg,

My company has now turned our attention to 2F and 1FZ motors to utilize tight squish design, rollerwave pistons, and fastburn style chambers to run high compression LC motors on 87 octane.

I must also mention that the engine geometry of the 2F is not condusive to detnation resistance. The rods are sooo long that piston dwell time at TDC is quite lengthy and causes the combustion event to be fairly inefficient, stroke the motors would help to get the piston to rod specs into a more reasonable ratio.

Offset wrist pins can help, but they bring other issues to the table...hopefully in the next 6 months to a year our research will be posted for others to see.

 

[Moby]

My company has now turned our attention to 2F and 1FZ motors to utilize tight squish design, rollerwave pistons, and fastburn style chambers to run high compression LC motors on 87 octane.

Does this mean that you're looking at designing aftermarket heads for the *F series of motors?

 

[stereophile33]

we are looking at options of welding in enough material to make the heads actually flow efficiently. They have plenty of flow, its just super turbulent and not very efficient with fuel flow.

We are focusing on taking the EF and 1FZ head and making them much more efficient.
Jonathan

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Dan-Have you thought about the wiring yet? That is what is holding me back. I've got the parts, just not the time to puzzle through it. I do have a complete FJ62 wiring harness and am considering simply rewiring my FJ40 with that.


And..I'd suggest using the flat top pistons from an FJ60. What you have looks like trouble.