Am I due a clutch replacement?

Discussion in 'Diesel Tech / 24 volts' started by Bongani, Jul 10, 2005.

  1. Bongani

    Bongani

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    I have cross posted this from the 80 Series area.

    This is how I am experiencing my clutch problems. The problems are not entirely consistent with some of the symptoms been experienced more frequent than others.

    ·Difficult to change gears (even when warm)
    ·In loaded torque situations (steep uphill) I noticed for the first time today very quick increase in engine revs with little increase in speed.
    ·When depressing the clutch, and engadging first gear there is a clunk, even with the clutch still been depressed.
    ·When changing gear at below 2000 RPM , there seems to be a delay before the clutch grabs completely. Typically one can hear the sound of shifting to the next gear, then after the clutch makes contact there is millisecond delay before there is a clunk. This makes gear changes a tad tricky as I now rides the clutch until the contact is made properly.
    ·Pilot bearing is noisy and growls, especially in the morning.

    It feels as if the clutch is for one not releasing properly and that once in gear the clutch is perhaps slipping or not making proper contact until it grabs completely.

    Apart from the above issues I also have an issue with the clutch when changing gear at high RPMs in the that clutch leaver becomes very stiff and hard and remains close to the ground and then slowly release, back to normal. This only happens at high RPM’s and I have had it since I got the vehicle. The vehicle has done 125 000km and is 5 years old. I bought it 6 months ago.

    My question is, I am having a hydraulic issue with the master/slave cylinders or am I due for a clutch replacement?
     
  2. silvercrusher

    silvercrusher

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    I think you may have a hydraulic issue. The pedal staying to the floor is a good indication. The rest too are all related to you actuating the slave. The growling? I dunno hard to tell without hearing/feeling it. First I would flush and bleed the line and test it. If that doesn't do it get under there with someone pushing the pedal and see if the slave is moving and retracting. This should be instantanious with no delays.

    If it is sticking undo the line from the master. If it allowes the slave to return you have a master problem. If the slave still does not return you have a slave problem.

    HTH
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2005
  3. Eric Winkworth

    Eric Winkworth

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    try double clutching the old girl if you arn't already. The clutch in my cruiser is new and it sure seems to shift alot nicer when I double clutch her.

    Thats no going to solve your problem though.
     
  4. crushers

    crushers post ho

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    clutch disc is worn, here is the test, put your front tires against a curb, let the clutch out in 2nd or third, if you can and the truck does not stall then the clutch is worn out. the indication that you are giving it gas and the truck is not going faster is a ture sign another is the fuel milage is dropping ove rth elast few road trips...
    cheers
     
  5. silvercrusher

    silvercrusher

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    A clutch gone after 5 years 120k. Wow that is something. What if the slave/master is not allowing the clutch to fully seat right away and then it is just slipping? I'd check the hydraulics also before you rip her down. .02
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2005
  6. crushers

    crushers post ho

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    if the slave was not set properly then the clutch is baked now...
    the hydralics do not change unless there is a leak...
    cheers
     
  7. Bongani

    Bongani

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    I have decided to pull the gearbox and have a look. Whether this was the best move only time will tell. Clutch should be out by end of today. Thanks for all the advise. The labout cost is just short of half of the parts cost so while the gearbox is out I will repalce with ful clutch kit, pilot bearing and skim the flywheel.
     
  8. Bongani

    Bongani

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    Anything else I should look at while the gearbox is out?
     
  9. crushers

    crushers post ho

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    replace the rear engine seal while in there...
    pilot bearing
    turn the flywheel
    new disc
    new pressure plate
    release bearing
    don't forget to put some lube on the input shaft splines and where the release bearing slides on the housing...
     
  10. Bongani

    Bongani

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    Thanks Crusher

    I think that lubing of the imput shaft splines is also an excellent idea.
     
  11. Tapage

    Tapage Club 4X4 Panamá SILVER Star

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    How many km ( or miles ) in your clutch set ( pressure plate, disk etc ) doing off road .. my HJ-60 is not my DD but when I use my Toy .. use hard .. ! my clutch set actually have around 50 000 km .. and I feel fine ..
     
  12. Bongani

    Bongani

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    The gearbox and clutch is out. The pressure plate is in near perfect consitions with no hotspots and so is the flywheel. The spline was bone dry with no lubrication and the release bearing was in the same conditions. IMO the pilot bearing was binding causing all my problems as well as the release bearing. The one damper spring on the clutch plate collapsed totally. Appart from this the lining on the clutch plate is still very thick.

    So I am having the pilot bearing, release bearing and the clutch plate replaced. Considering the near perfect condition of the pressure plate, can it be used again?
     
  13. Bongani

    Bongani

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    Tapage

    I bought the vehicle with 117 000km on the clock. I suppose it saw little offroad in that time. I traced the first owner and he did the first 80 000km on tar only. She now has 125 000km on the clock. I think it it fair to say that she saw lot of tar and the latter part of her life has been more offroad. I also joined the Birfield club at around 119 000km. I do think this was due to exessive use of the front lockers under heavy power conditions.
     
  14. crushers

    crushers post ho

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    as long as it is not shinny then yep.
    you really should replace the rear engine seal while the flywheel is out...
    cheers
     
  15. Tapage

    Tapage Club 4X4 Panamá SILVER Star

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    Ok thanks Mr. Bongani .. I'm not worry right now about it, but is a great notice ear about more than 100 km on serius off road use without problems .. :D
     
  16. Bongani

    Bongani

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    Howdy guys

    Time for some feedback... again. But this time with photos.

    As it turned out the main problem was the binding of th release bearing and the pilot bearing on the shaft and spline.
    There was absolutely no lubrication in these areas.


    Here is an image of the release bearing binding on the shaft.
    [​IMG]


    The pilot bearing sitting in the flywheel.
    [​IMG]

    The clutch plate. Notice the lack of lubrication on the centre piece. The one spring started to collapse and the centre piece was starting to have excessive play in relation to the actual clutch plate. THe plate itself was still in perfect condition and could possibly last another 100 000km.
    [​IMG]

    Another angle of the clutch plate.
    [​IMG]


    The clutch plate on the shaft connected to the gearbox.
    [​IMG]

    In the end I replaced the clutch plate, release bearing and pilot bearing. THe differnce is incredible. I now Have a smooth clutch action, no binding, no grating when changing gears, no delayed grabbing.
     
  17. crushers

    crushers post ho

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    when you turn the pilot bearing with your finger does it rotate smooth or "clicky"?
     
  18. Bongani

    Bongani

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    The old pilot bearing feels ruff and makes noise when rotating it by hand.
     
  19. silvercrusher

    silvercrusher

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    Are you using graphite or something else to lube up all the bits? I didn't think that clutch would be worn. But that bearing looks like s***e! Glad it all worked out for you
     
  20. Bongani

    Bongani

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    We used Omega57.

    And I quote for their website.
    "Omega 57- An Extreme Pressure Lubricant for all Wheel Bearings. Forms a wear
    arresting film on rollers, balls and races which seal out dirt, dust, mud and water. Will
    not channel to outer bearings and has a minimum dropping point of 249°C"

    I also use this on the trucks wheel bearings.
     
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