A cheaper Diesel swap-a-roo??? Your thoughts please. (1 Viewer)

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Oct 7, 2005
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Cedar Falls, Iowa
 
So, here we go. (Warning! Long post.) :eek: I found a link to a posting on another website whilst doing a search for diesel engines. Here's a brief chunk of it:

"...Of course in any repower, the trick is to latch
onto the right engine. A lot of people have
repowered Land Cruisers with 6.2 or 6.5 GM diesels.
GM stuff fits Land Cruisers well because the old
Toyota six is exactly a Chevy 230 "Stovebolt" six.
No body work needed. A normally aspirated 6.2 or
6.5 give a lot more torque than the original gas
engine and better mileage to boot. Further, the
fast-revving 6.2/6.5 runs the Saginaw power
steering pump better than a Cummins 4. Old Chevy
diesels are easy to find in junk yards. Maybe the
Cummins 4BT could make more power, but the ease and
low cost of the Chevy conversion is attractive."


WARNING!!! If the thought of Chevy's nausiate you, stop here now. :ban:


So I know that several of you have done a diesel swap and I want your thoughts on this set of thoughts. Has anyone here considered this or know someone who has done this?

I've seen a couple turbo 6.2s for $500-$800 on the ole' internet, so what does it take? Are the 6.2s as tall as the 4BT? Is a lift required to fit? Weight difference? Fuel consumption difference? Performance characteristics of the 6.2? Anyone have an older bowtie w/ a 6.2 underhood? How does the non-turbo compare to the turbo version? I know that I might just need to ask a knowedgalbe Chevy guy, but I thought I would ask here first since some of you might know from experience.

BTW, my 2f is still running fine. Just making my list of upgrades and learning what they all entail. :D

Thanks,

Blue 60
 
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I am not a chevy fan at all. But I will admit that if something happens to my 2F this will be one of the options I look at. The 6.5L is the better of the two engines, I think it has some improvements to it. IIRC it has the same bolt patter as the 350 on the bellhousing and is dimentially the same. Turbos would be a bonus. Its not an uncommon engine, the real Hummer and Humvee where powered but the 6.5 and so were tons of 1/2ton military trucks.
 

ChuckB

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I recommend you use the search function located at the top of the page.... you will find plenty of info if you search for "diesel"
 
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Yes, as ChuckB mentioned, use the search function. Since everything in the world related to Land Cruisers has been covered, and no one new ever joins Mud that would have anything new to offer, you should use the search function as your only means of information. With the extensive use of the search function, collectively we should be able to reduce the number of postings to near zero.

Good Luck
 
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Blue I'm with you..yes the search function is great but sometimes I would rather ask the question then use the search function.....heck we all love landcruiers and I never mind answering the same question from 10 different people, cause I don't expect those other 9 to know that that 10th person asked the same question. Unfortunately I don't know a whole lot about the diesel...you may try finding an owners manual to see the bolt pattern and other specs is about the only thing I can offer....good luck.
 

ChuckB

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I'm not trying to be rude, hope I didn't come off that way. All I'm saying is that there is probably days of reading on diesel engines if you search. Trust me I have asked PLENTY of questions myself.

Some people here would argue that he could have probably found the answer to his question by searching... Personally I could care less if the same question is asked mulitple times. It doesn't both me.

I just make it a habit to search for info before I ask, that's all.
 
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I think most people see 20 MPG or better with the GM diesel. As always result vary with the weight of your right foot. The GM is most likley the least expensive swap as parts are almost the same for 350 gaser. As long as you can source a complete engine for cheap.
 
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I'm not trying to be rude either, but it looks like I was. My apologies. Every time I see a reference to searching I can't help but think of the Pirate board and how that seems to be the sandard answer to most questions.

Don
 

esh

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It's a lot cheaper to keep your 2F well-maintained than to swap to a diesel.
 
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Luke at 4x4Labs is working on the adapter for teh 300D to Chevy trannys. Seems he has been working on it for a some time though.

Don
 
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I’ve done it. Not quite as easy as putting in a GM gasser, but not bad either. Some of the Gas V8 conversion parts and kits won’t work. Gas bell housings have the same bolt pattern, but the diesel starter nose won’t fit. The 6.2 has it’s own unique flywheel. GM didn’t sell many manual trans diesel vehicles, so bell housings and flywheels not very common. Marks Adapters in Australia sells a kit. Bell housing and flywheel kit runs about $1200 by the time it gets shipped to your house. Their motor mount kit doesn’t position the engine correctly for US left hand drives. Advance adapters motor mounts will work, but don’t seem substantial enough for my tastes on a diesel. You’re kind of left figuring many things up yourself.
There is plenty of space. I spaced my steering box out a bit to get the steering shaft off the exh manifold.
It is shorter than a 4BT. Lift not required, however the front end did hit my motor mount on big bumps, so I ended up lifting my vehicle. The diesel definitely needs an overdrive if you do interstate driving.
I’ve driven some 6.2 diesel vehicles that were sluggish, and others that were ok. I don’t know the secret of picking the right one. Luck of the draw. I got lucky. Mine has exceeded my expectations on power. But fuel economy is less than expected. I’m getting 18 MPG hwy, 16MPG city.
In 1994 they went computer, and have electronic inj pump controls. Best to look for 93 or older. 91 to 93 are nicer just because they had the serpentine belt and assy setup. 82’s have the best strongest high nickel content block, but also have bigger valve heads more susceptible to cracking. If I were looking for an engine, I would look for 83 to 93. GM diesels have cast cranks. Buy a new balancer, you won’t have a problem. Cranks can break if using an old balancer and the rubber in it goes bad.
Vacuum pump on the 6.2 will work with the stock brake booster ok. I used a hydroboost.
I’m pleased with my 6.2 and it’s been reliable.
 
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THanks for the replies. I did try searching, but the search engine wasn't working for me for a while. It is now. I found FL Cruiser's and Gumby's conversion posts.

Currently mine 2F runs great. The two POs were extremely meticulous. I'm just dreaming/planning for the future. We have a '97 GMC diesel 3/4 ton Suburban in the extended family and are all impressed w/ the diesel part of it (and most of the rest of it too.)

Blue 60
 
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IIRC, the 6.5 turbo was electronically controlled, and had injector pump problems out the yin-yang, especially the first couple years of them.

Of the 3, I'd say the 6.5 naturally aspirated, then turbo it yourself.

The 6.2 is a sore spot for me. Not enough low-end torque to pull an earthworm out of a bucket of snot, and not the kind of durability I expect out of a diesel. I'd almost keep the 2F or go to a SB Chevy before considering the 6.2.

It seems GM has never gotten it just right when it comes to passenger car/light truck diesels.

I've even heard crap about the DuraMax's injector pump eating itself at 100,000 miles. The same time as the warranty expires. Neat, huh?

Yeah, a few Duramax people have been left on the hook paying $3000 for an Injector pump 2000 miles after warranty expires. Customers blame GM, GM blames Bosch (the maker of the pump), and Bosh blames the liquid crap they sell us and call diesel fuel in this country. FWIW, THe Bosch Pump in the Duramax has been used in Europe for quite a few years, and there are plenty of examples of them lasting >500,000 miles, so I think Bosch is right on this one.

Fred
 
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Blue 60; I too, have been contemplating a diesel for quite some time. I've been doing a lot of research into this subject, but obviously, my knowlege is academic compared to Fl Cruisers. I just bought a copy of the new issue of Diesel Power magazine (Winter '05 ) off the newstand, and there's an article in there on a 6.2 litre build-up. They say not to even consider buying a 6.2 litre that was made before 1988. The way you tell the newer ones, is that they use serpentine belt systems. I gotta tell you that after reading that article I got pretty turned off to the idea of a 6.2 litre. They talk about some of the notorious problems of this engine such as cracked blocks due to weak engine studs, and broken timing chains. Granted, they have upgrades for these problems which they discuss in the article, but it kind of gave me pause.
It seems like the 6.5 L would be a better though more expensive choice. The way I understand the history of that motor is that the first ones had mechanical injection pumps which worked fine. Then the EPA made them put on electronic ones which were junk. The second generation electronic ones are supposedly better, and there's a kit sold which isolates the electronics from the heat of the engine. Why GM engineers didn't think of that kind of illustrates why the company is having so many problems today.
I guess the other thing to consider is horsepower. Not sure why you'd want to put a 6.2 L in a Cruiser if it has less hp than the 2F. I think FL Cruiser mated his to a NV 4500 which has a 27% overdrive. That seems like it would be worth it.
As for the Mercedes OM 617A engine found in 300 Ds. I was looking at one of those today at the mechanic's that works on my wife's Mercedes (gasser). That's a really neat engine, and it's actually smaller than a 2F. He was telling me he has customers that have close to a million miles on theirs. They're really pretty bullet proof, but the horsepower is slightly less than the 2F (126 hp). And then there's the problem of adapting it to the Toyota tranny. All in all it's kind of frustrating.
Have you or has anyone else thought about a Dodge (Cummins 5.9 L) in a Cruiser? I don't know if one would fit, but I've heard they're pretty awesome engines. I've got a friend who has one in his Dodge pickup with 400,000 miles on it, and he's never had to do anything except change the oil.
 
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Been heavely researching a diesel swap for my 60. Having owned two powerstrokes and really very happy with the diesel perfoemance I have decided I will not be happy umtil my 60 rattles. I have narrowed it down to a 4bt or a 6bt. I like the 4bt because the weight is similar to the 2f, it is a 4 banger so milelage should be pretty good, and it is entirely mechanical. As for the 6bt the only thing holding me back is the size. It is a bit smoother then the 4 and will vibrate less. Mileage will be less then the 4 but I stll expect it to be around 25+. I am planning on doing a spring over to get either to fit, but if I go with the 6 I will need to beef up the springs (was thinking of going with some f-250/350 springs). So I would say the 6 is an option, may be a little more difficult to get in to the thing but should be doable. I guess I will make up my mind when I find the right donor vehicle. Of course I will post pic's as things get rolling
 
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The 6.5 litre chevy v8 diesel is a fairly common conversion in Australia for Toyotas and Nissans. I rarely ever hear of the 6.2 conversions here, so they seem to stay away from that engine.

A company in my state called LynQuip does lots of these conversions and often competed in their short wheelbase Nissan Patrol (Ford Maverick) and they stated that they got around 18 mpg in competitions/4WDriving, and 22 mpg travelling (that's imperial gallons).

Nice sounding engine.
 
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Ok, lets look at the big blue oval then. Ever since the 6.0 powerstroke came out, I have only heard great things about it. Now Ford is producing a "baby" powerstroke in the 4.5L V-6 size. Any word on that or is it too new yet. (But then according to Dallen341 it has all been covered already... :grinpimp: ) I read that the new 4.5 stinker is going to be used in a new stepvan/delivery truck platform. So maybe we should just watch it for 5-7 years (approx. when my 2F will have 300k on it) and snatch one up then...... Just thinkin "online".
 
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Blue 60 said:
Ok, lets look at the big blue oval then. Ever since the 6.0 powerstroke came out, I have only heard great things about it.
Then you've clearly never been HERE


This is not a unique site. Do a google search and see how many 6.0 powerstroke owners have resigned themselves to "making lemonade" when Ford sells them a lemon. This engine has more apologists than.... well, it's got a lot of apologists.

On the diesel forums, there's enough Powerstroke horror stories to keep you reading for days on end. My favorite is the guy who bought his new $48,000 King Ranch F350, drove it home from the dealership, and the injector pump filled the crank case with diesel, leaked diesel through the turbo seals and "ran away" itself to death with 50 miles on it. Ford replaced the engine under warranty, and the replacement engine only lasted 30,000 miles before it too, commited suicide by runaway.

Or, go to a Ford dealer, tell them you want a f350 Heavy duty for commercial use. I'll bet you they'll try to steer you away from the PS and over to a 450 or 550 with a Caterpillar.

Ford supposedly has fixed lots of the issues, but the long term prognosis on the engine is unclear. I'm issueing a strong "AVOID" until a few more years have passed and we see how the newer powerstrokes with at least some of the bugs worked out hold up in the long run. Even with some of these bugs fixed, this engine still has "potential albatross" written all over it.

Personally, I'd save your money and get a 12HT or 13BT and keep it Toyota.

FOr a cheaper/more commly available route, I'd go Cummins 4BT or Mercedes, in that order. THe merc is a great engine, a true lillion miler, but I wonder if the torque band is appropriate for off roading. 4x4labs was working on a conversion kit for the Merc diesel, you might drop them a line and see if they have one yet. Maybe you could volunteer to be a prototype/Beta customer. :)

Fred
 
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