A/C on a HDJ81

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nickw

nickw

Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Threads
86
Messages
1,357
Location
Cranbrook BC
Hello,

Right now the system is on r12. Its does not work. I know the compressor works, and I am pretty sure the pressure switch works. I think the system just has a leak and needs that fixing and then a charge.

Only problem is they don't charge with r12 anymore. So I would have to convert to r134. I have talked to a local AC shop and they said it usually costs $500-600 to convert to r134 and charge (change o-rings, new dryer etc...).

Has anyone done this yet? How much was it? Also how well does the r134 cool?
Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Nick
 
Last edited:
Sounds a little bit high even with changing the dryer. Check around on prices but don't go the cheap route and skimp on stuff that really needs to be changed. The dryer and expansion valve are two things that are definitetly recommended.
 
Have someone pressurize the system, then wait a couple days to see if there is a leak. How do you know the presure switch is working, how do you know the compressor is working? You can hotwire the compressor to see if it engages.

I have heard of people just putting in 134 without doing any mods - and seems to work ok.

regards
 
Try a few more shops. I thought you could still get R12. But many shops don't anymore.
It is illegal for auto manufactures to produce vehicles needing this stuff, but it is still avail for older vehicles. I think in the states you can still get it done.

From what I have heard 134 on older vehicles sucks. Because 134 doesn't have the cooling capacity of R12. New vehicles have larger a/c systems to make up for this.
On Mercedes forums they talk about still putting in R12. So I am not sure if Canada doesn't allow R12, but the USA does on older vehicles. If that was the case I would just drive south to have it done, especially if I lived near the boarder. Hard where I am not tho.

There are R12 replacements too like Redtec and few others.

But try calling around, maybe even Vancouver. Even if the place has to order it in for you.
 
nick-

R12 is still easily available from shops in the US, drive down and get recharged (with dye for leaks).

Compressor should be rebuildable locally.
all O rings are common.

I would NOT convert to R134a for a number of reasons, the first being it (134) is being phased out and is expensive. 134 does not work in R12 systems in Arizona and many factory designed 134 systems do not work (isuzu trooper, 2000 models for instance).

R12 as long as it's captured does not harm the environment and is a superior refrigerant. Charged solid systems can last decades without failure and good service.

rick
tucson, az
 
you can still get r12 in canada you just need to know where to look, hint ( many industrial aplications still use r12 ) go to one of these shops and they will refill your system .
 
Hello
I have an older vehicle that has the r12 system. I used a product called Duracool and it works great, it blows colder than R12, and R12 blows colder than 134, you can buy a kit that comes with 2 cans and the hose that fills the system, also there is a sealer that expands the orings and seals holes in the condensor and evaporator and hoses, I also added this, find a dealer that sells duracool, or do a google on duracool, it works
 
I run R134a in my '82 BJ60 and I never have been lacking for cooling! That includes the jungles of Central America and the deserts of Arizona and Southern California. If R134a is being phased out what's replacing it?

btw Nick, the swap should not be more than $400 or so. That's what I paid to have hoses made AND the system charged for my truck about 2-3 years ago.
 
Here in Japan my shop converts about 4 to 8 cars a day to the 134a sytem during the summer. It does work fine if the system is in good shape (not quite as cold as R-12 but more than good enough for the heat and humidity in Okinawa). To convert it the whole system should be completely vacuumed out (compressor oil included) and then recharged with new oil and freon. The compressor oils are not compatable with the different freon, it will eventually kill the compressor if mixed. Do the conversion right or it won't last and cause other problems. Like I said before the dryer and the expansion valve are highly recommended items to be changed.
 
Another HDJ81 owner on the Island was looking to convert to R134 but he ended up using Duracool too. He wrote in an email,
Good news about air conditioning with R12, there is now a refrigerant you can use to recharge it if necessary. It is called Duracool and works great as I just used it on my system. They also sell a sealant for minor leaks. Reasonably priced and available locally as well.
Click to expand...

G'luck, -Steve
 
Thanks guys.
I might try the duracool route.

I think I will also have my system evacuated and checked for leaks.

Does any one know how many lbs it will take to charge an empty system?

Cheers,
Nick
 
I paid $260cad to have my 80 recharged and converted to R134 after my swap.
The guy explained that there was class 1. 2. 3 conversions or something. I got a class 1 IIRC. He said if I didn't find it satifactory I could come back and he would credit me toward a class 2 or 3. AFAIK he just changed the valves on the pump and recharged w 134. the soft hoses were new and OK for 134.
It works quite well for the B.C climate, even on a recent trip to California where it was 117F (47c) the AC was cool enough. I did want to retain R12 but could't find anyone to do it before the trip.. and having no AC was not an option.
 
Nick,

I have looked into this as well and will probably get it recharged with R12 (either through the neighbour who does it for a living or in an un-named country to the south of us). I would only go this route if it was convenient and/or cheap. I called about R134a conversions in my area and got similar quotes to you (4-500). I looked into some of the cheaper aftermarket options (Duracool, RedTek, Freeze12, H-12a) as well and will probably go this route if the R12 thing doesn't pan out. Do your research first though. A lot of the aftermarket products are essentially a Butane and Propane Mix (Hydrocarbons). R-12 is a non-flammable flourocarbon. Now before I get flamed, I'm not saying this to scare you away, just to make sure you know what you are working with and putting into your system. There are lots of articles on these products ranging from a video by the EPA showing car windows exploding to many experts downplaying the risks. Apparently it is just as safe as 134a. THis thread goes into it a bit:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=97673

If you do decide to convert yourself and need to purge the system of R-12, make sure you get a shop to do it. Its a bad idea (and illegal) to release it into the atmosphere


HTH

Daryl
 
Hello Daryl,

How much does your nieghboor charge?
I could do it when I come through the okanagan.
I would prefer r12. I would just want a evac/test and charge.


Sheldon,

Did the guy that did it for you convert your dryer?
I heard the the dryer is a major thing.
If your still using the dryer used for r12 then the 134 could be a lot colder.

Cheers,
Nick
 
I would imagine that the person who changed over Sheldon's system to R134 also changed the dryer...that's not really an option to keep. A new dryer doesn't cost anything significant anyway.

Sheldon's AC on R134 blows fairly cold. One thing I noticed was that his AC took a few minutes longer to get as cold as my AC on R12...but once it gets there, it's ICE.
 
Stone said:
I would imagine that the person who changed over Sheldon's system to R134 also changed the dryer...that's not really an option to keep. A new dryer doesn't cost anything significant anyway.

Sheldon's AC on R134 blows fairly cold. One thing I noticed was that his AC took a few minutes longer to get as cold as my AC on R12...but once it gets there, it's ICE.
Click to expand...

Sheldon can correct me, however I believe the fellow did a complete purge, and simply added the new. No replacement bits or parts at all, other then what SHeldon mentioned already.

gb
 
nick are there any truck and trailer refridgeration companies around you , if so go and see them the truck and trailers refers are still running r12 , i guy i work with had his car refilled for $ 100 under the table .
 
Nick, if the system is opened the dryer MUST be replaced. Its a false ecomomy not to replace it.
 
nickw said:
Hello Daryl,

Sheldon,

Did the guy that did it for you convert your dryer?
I heard the the dryer is a major thing.
If your still using the dryer used for r12 then the 134 could be a lot colder.

Cheers,
Nick
Click to expand...

I don't believe the dryer was changed.
The AC is plenty cold.
He said if I didn't find it cold enough he would credit the $260 toward the more complete conversion.
I am perfectly happy with it the way it is.
 
nickw said:
Thanks guys.
I might try the duracool route.

I think I will also have my system evacuated and checked for leaks.

Does any one know how many lbs it will take to charge an empty system?

Cheers,
Nick
Click to expand...

I just posted on another thread re: duracool, and I do know it's BEST to have the system evacuated, but it's a real waste of money according to every mechanic I've talked to. Just start out with 1 bottle of duracool, and see how cold it gets, you can always add more if you want. 6 oz of duracool = 17oz of r12 ratio.

Remember, just because your a/c system doesn't blow cold, doesn't mean its empty. If you have a 2 lb system, and it doesn't blow cold at all, you could still have at least 1 lb of r12 in there.

Hey $70 and 20 minutes of my time got my a/c system blowing colder than I could have every imagined.

BTW, duracool is fully compatible w/ r12 or r134a. Colder than r134a in my opinion.
 
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