- Year
- 1997
- Vehicle Model
- 80 Series
- Location
- United States
- Mileage
- 212000
- Color
- Beige
VERY long, but interesting, story follows, the summary is that of a 97 FZJ80 CE model with a Salvage title. What is it worth??
Background:
I drove to Alabama to check out a locked 97 CE FZJ80 on Craigslist, (VIN:JT3HJ85J4V0185939). It was stated to have a Salvage/Rebuilt title
so pulled a Carfax which showed it had been stolen (NY) in 1999, recovered, then retitled as Salvage/Rebuilt. Then it went on to Alabama for a couple of months, still salvage title, then to Texas for eight years, ditto, then for the last 12 years back to Alabama, Salvage title.
No reported accident history however CarFax doesn't catch them all.
Apparently once the insurance company pays out for a stolen vehicle that vehicle (in at least some states) can only be titled Salvage/Rebuilt for the rest of it's life.
After looking at the vehicle and taking it for a long test drive only then did I find out the seller is not the owner, but apparently selling it for his brother in law?? The seller seemed to be into everything from selling used commercial trucks/parts to once owning a T-shirt store on the beach. My guess is he got it running and maybe is getting a commission??
I learn that the vehicle has sat for ?? months/years (looked like, it, when they washed it off they missed parts of the roof, it had been sitting under a tree). Said he had to replace the fuel pump, fuel filter, a knock sensor, and temp sensor to get it running (so how's the gas tank, rusty?)
He had recently pressure washed everything under the hood and the front axle but the usual telltale signs and typical leaks were still present; oil pump cover, valve cover (a lot), distributor O-ring, rear main/versus rear arch, rear pinion seal, PS pump, steering knuckles, etc,etc,etc.
Also the dash brake light was on, brake fluid was old/grimey, power steering fluid same, front seat gears gone, antenna dead, rear carpet trashed (he had a couple of dogs) some chunks dug out with ? claw marks. Likely some water leaks, surface rust on the floor under the carpet. PHH looked good surprisingly.
Took it for a drive, lots of vibrations, maybe some from tires (not lifted). U-joints/slip yolks looked dry however. Sluggish acceleration (knock sensor, timing?), vibrations/shuddering when braking (?wheel bearings loose). Two windows barely move in 80 degree weather, another moves like it has a busted regulator. Front driver's seat ripped. Steering wheel leather failing. Headliner very dirty. Faux wood completely sun/heat damaged.
Still had original heat control valve and radiator, both with discolored plastic from age, top of radiator almost white from age. Strong smell of gasoline while it's running. All window moldings with extensive peeling of the rubber coating. Windshield and right front window glass were aftermarket. Key hard to turn in Ignition (likely worn). Few dings and scuffs here and there, spot of rust on tailgate, paint/clearcoat however in good condition overall. Very wobbly driver's side mirror. Antenna doesn't move. Front seats don't move right (need gears replaced).
The coolant temperature needle never got up to the usual horizontal position. Looked just like when I ran my 80 without the Tstat for a couple of days (so did someone remove it due to overheating??) Fan clutch had little resistance with hot engine but no overheating while I was there. No smoke/vapor or smell of coolant out the tailpipe. Engine oil looked recently changed. Non-OEM engine oil pan drain plug, larger than normal hex head front diff fill plug.
It had all the usual issues, needed all the catch-up PM, service, and repairs. Original head gasket but no obvious signs of a leak. Some reddish sludge in the overflow tank.
After the test drive I snapped a photo of the front of the engine from below (splash guard missing) showing the typical fresh (large) leak from the oil pump cover. Show it to the seller, he says it's just left over oil---. Nope.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Talked to my insurance company (USAA), said they would insure it but the payout in the event of an accident or vandalism would be much less than the same vehicle with a regular title and that it could be Totaled at a much lower value, even from vandalism. My research suggests that it might be 50% or less of the usual value.
On top of that I was just getting bad vibes from the seller, didn't believe a word he said.
In the end the seller wouldn't budge much on the price (came down $300
and acted perturbed at that, said it was worth $15k as it sat, it wasn't).
What made it worse (trying to deal with him) was that (he said) people from all over the country, including Hawaii, were calling him making offers over the phone, so he knew he had something people wanted.
His post in Craigslist is not entirely accurate: this 80 has had at least 3-4 owners and is a CE, not a 40th Anniversary. As mentioned above and contrary to what the seller said, everything doesn't work.
Comment/Opinion:
IMHO we are causing price inflation when people looking for an 80 series start calling all over the country with excitement in their voices "I'll send you a check, please just hold it for me-----" that puts the seller in the driver's seat so-to-speak.
Edit: to underscore that point, in less than 12 hours this thread had 175 views. Imagine what a seller would think if all those people started calling and emailing them?? Goldmine!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I suppose if someone planned on keeping this particular 97 CE forever and never had an accident with it the Salvage title wouldn't matter, but on the other hand, if you sunk another $4000-5000 into it, then had an accident, the insurance company could/would Total it more easily and end up paying you 1/4-1/2 of your investment, and then take the vehicle to boot.
And that was the reason I passed on this one. If it had a regular Title the asking price IMO was not too far off, maybe a bit high due to all the neglected maintenence and cosmetic issues, assuming there isn't something major (??head gasket) the seller's hiding. But with the Salvage/Rebuilt title which in some states must have a sticker showing that (can't hide the fact), it really was overpriced IMO.
And that was a concern: while looking at the engine the seller suddenly got extremely agitated/angry when I simply asked about "any problems with the head gasket" after he mentioned a misfire in #6 cylinder that he cleared ( he then said under his breath "I'm talking too much"!!).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Main point with telling the long story: letting people know what issues it has (all the usual plus a Salvage title).
Edit: the Craigslist Ad below is now down as the 80 sold a few days after
this post and was apparently shipped to Hawaii.
Background:
I drove to Alabama to check out a locked 97 CE FZJ80 on Craigslist, (VIN:JT3HJ85J4V0185939). It was stated to have a Salvage/Rebuilt title
so pulled a Carfax which showed it had been stolen (NY) in 1999, recovered, then retitled as Salvage/Rebuilt. Then it went on to Alabama for a couple of months, still salvage title, then to Texas for eight years, ditto, then for the last 12 years back to Alabama, Salvage title.
No reported accident history however CarFax doesn't catch them all.
Apparently once the insurance company pays out for a stolen vehicle that vehicle (in at least some states) can only be titled Salvage/Rebuilt for the rest of it's life.
After looking at the vehicle and taking it for a long test drive only then did I find out the seller is not the owner, but apparently selling it for his brother in law?? The seller seemed to be into everything from selling used commercial trucks/parts to once owning a T-shirt store on the beach. My guess is he got it running and maybe is getting a commission??
I learn that the vehicle has sat for ?? months/years (looked like, it, when they washed it off they missed parts of the roof, it had been sitting under a tree). Said he had to replace the fuel pump, fuel filter, a knock sensor, and temp sensor to get it running (so how's the gas tank, rusty?)
He had recently pressure washed everything under the hood and the front axle but the usual telltale signs and typical leaks were still present; oil pump cover, valve cover (a lot), distributor O-ring, rear main/versus rear arch, rear pinion seal, PS pump, steering knuckles, etc,etc,etc.
Also the dash brake light was on, brake fluid was old/grimey, power steering fluid same, front seat gears gone, antenna dead, rear carpet trashed (he had a couple of dogs) some chunks dug out with ? claw marks. Likely some water leaks, surface rust on the floor under the carpet. PHH looked good surprisingly.
Took it for a drive, lots of vibrations, maybe some from tires (not lifted). U-joints/slip yolks looked dry however. Sluggish acceleration (knock sensor, timing?), vibrations/shuddering when braking (?wheel bearings loose). Two windows barely move in 80 degree weather, another moves like it has a busted regulator. Front driver's seat ripped. Steering wheel leather failing. Headliner very dirty. Faux wood completely sun/heat damaged.
Still had original heat control valve and radiator, both with discolored plastic from age, top of radiator almost white from age. Strong smell of gasoline while it's running. All window moldings with extensive peeling of the rubber coating. Windshield and right front window glass were aftermarket. Key hard to turn in Ignition (likely worn). Few dings and scuffs here and there, spot of rust on tailgate, paint/clearcoat however in good condition overall. Very wobbly driver's side mirror. Antenna doesn't move. Front seats don't move right (need gears replaced).
The coolant temperature needle never got up to the usual horizontal position. Looked just like when I ran my 80 without the Tstat for a couple of days (so did someone remove it due to overheating??) Fan clutch had little resistance with hot engine but no overheating while I was there. No smoke/vapor or smell of coolant out the tailpipe. Engine oil looked recently changed. Non-OEM engine oil pan drain plug, larger than normal hex head front diff fill plug.
It had all the usual issues, needed all the catch-up PM, service, and repairs. Original head gasket but no obvious signs of a leak. Some reddish sludge in the overflow tank.
After the test drive I snapped a photo of the front of the engine from below (splash guard missing) showing the typical fresh (large) leak from the oil pump cover. Show it to the seller, he says it's just left over oil---. Nope.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Talked to my insurance company (USAA), said they would insure it but the payout in the event of an accident or vandalism would be much less than the same vehicle with a regular title and that it could be Totaled at a much lower value, even from vandalism. My research suggests that it might be 50% or less of the usual value.
On top of that I was just getting bad vibes from the seller, didn't believe a word he said.
In the end the seller wouldn't budge much on the price (came down $300
and acted perturbed at that, said it was worth $15k as it sat, it wasn't).
What made it worse (trying to deal with him) was that (he said) people from all over the country, including Hawaii, were calling him making offers over the phone, so he knew he had something people wanted.
His post in Craigslist is not entirely accurate: this 80 has had at least 3-4 owners and is a CE, not a 40th Anniversary. As mentioned above and contrary to what the seller said, everything doesn't work.
Comment/Opinion:
IMHO we are causing price inflation when people looking for an 80 series start calling all over the country with excitement in their voices "I'll send you a check, please just hold it for me-----" that puts the seller in the driver's seat so-to-speak.
Edit: to underscore that point, in less than 12 hours this thread had 175 views. Imagine what a seller would think if all those people started calling and emailing them?? Goldmine!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I suppose if someone planned on keeping this particular 97 CE forever and never had an accident with it the Salvage title wouldn't matter, but on the other hand, if you sunk another $4000-5000 into it, then had an accident, the insurance company could/would Total it more easily and end up paying you 1/4-1/2 of your investment, and then take the vehicle to boot.
And that was the reason I passed on this one. If it had a regular Title the asking price IMO was not too far off, maybe a bit high due to all the neglected maintenence and cosmetic issues, assuming there isn't something major (??head gasket) the seller's hiding. But with the Salvage/Rebuilt title which in some states must have a sticker showing that (can't hide the fact), it really was overpriced IMO.
And that was a concern: while looking at the engine the seller suddenly got extremely agitated/angry when I simply asked about "any problems with the head gasket" after he mentioned a misfire in #6 cylinder that he cleared ( he then said under his breath "I'm talking too much"!!).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Main point with telling the long story: letting people know what issues it has (all the usual plus a Salvage title).
Edit: the Craigslist Ad below is now down as the 80 sold a few days after
this post and was apparently shipped to Hawaii.
1997 Toyota Land Crusier - cars & trucks - by owner - vehicle...
40th Collectors Edition Two adult owners 4.5 liter 6 cylinder 4x4 Excellent Operating condition...
bham.craigslist.org
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