91 won't start after long drive, need some expert opinions (2 Viewers)

[Tpurdin]

Well bought a 91 3fe powered cruiser last year been slowly building her up and I've ran into a few issues. After about thirty minutes of running and then shutting off it will not restart. Let it rest a couple hours, and boom it starts back up???? It has left me stranded a couple times and have even had to tow it home because of this once. I had the starter replaced in it and it still keeps happening? Is this a starter issue or am I looking at a different issue all together?

Couple things I have done- starter, battery terminals, all fuses replaced.

Need help would greatly appreciate it!

 

[Marine7]

Typical 3F problem- I almost guarantee your EFI relay, in the underhood fuse box, is getting over-heated. Carry a spare and switch them out when need arises. It's the round, metal relay, not the blade fuse.
Long term solution that I finally did was to relocate the relay under my dash. Search forums.

 

[Tpurdin]

So here's the deal already have a spare and have tried this, carry fuses and relay with me all the time to switch out. Doesn't do a thing.....still won't start

 

[LazyEye]

So here's the deal already have a spare and have tried this, carry fuses and relay with me all the time to switch out. Doesn't do a thing.....still won't start

now i'm really interested because my 92 does the EXACT same thing. i just picked up a new relay from the toyota house today and am waiting for the issue to arise so i can swap out the relay and see if the problem goes away. when your's refuses to start, what happens when you turn the key? any clicks or just nothing at all?

 

[Tpurdin]

Nothing at all, relay is hot but I put the new one in and still nothing, no clicking from the starter solinoid/starter. Key does nothing it decides to start when it wants to basically. Again I replaced the starter the original unit was tired and worn out. Not the issue.

 

[Marine7]

Does your check engine light illuminate when you turn the key forward? If no..... fuseable links are bad. If yes.... pull the EFI relay out and look at where it "connects" to the box..... if it looks burnt, you may have already messed up the wires, they are notoriously undersized, and a lot of guys (myself included) have had to re-wire with GOOD 12 gauge wire from the fuse box, back to the diagnostic box on the firewall.

 

[Marine7]

And..... not to doubt you, but we don't know your mechanical aptitude, 1) you verified your spare is a working relay? 2) when you changed out your starter, are you sure you wired everything back correctly? 3) ground problem? Good luck!

 

[SUMMIT CRUISERS]

If it doesn't turn over and/or the starter solenoid doesn't click, I would check the battery terminals and the battery cables. If all that checks out, I would add the Ford solenoid to the ignition switch wire to boost power to the starter solenoid. Here's a thread I posted earlier this year:
94 delayed cranking. Starter, ignition switch, or other?

 

[jonheld]

Folks,
The starter circuit has nothing to do with any part of the EFI circuit.

 

[Marine7]

Folks,
The starter circuit has nothing to do with any part of the EFI circuit.

I don't see where anyone was insinuating that..... just 2 things I've found on mine, that "sound" like what OP was stating.

 

[jonheld]

I don't see where anyone was insinuating that..... just 2 things I've found on mine, that "sound" like what OP was stating.

The OP should have been more descriptive. No start and no crank are very different issues. However, every first reaction is "EFI relay". My 3FE doesn't start. EFI relay. My tire pressure is low. EFI relay. My refrigerator light is out. EFI relay.

 

[Tpurdin]

Check engine light comes on and shuts off when started

Does your check engine light illuminate when you turn the key forward? If no..... fuseable links are bad. If yes.... pull the EFI relay out and look at where it "connects" to the box..... if it looks burnt, you may have already messed up the wires, they are notoriously undersized, and a lot of guys (myself included) have had to re-wire with GOOD 12 gauge wire from the fuse box, back to the diagnostic box on the firewall.

 

[mthom916]

I had a similar problem over the last couple of days in my 91 except mine cut off while driving several times. I too thought it was the EFI relay. It wasn't... It was the Igniter which is located directly under the ignition coil. Now here is the real problem as far as I can tell the igniter is a discontinued part. I had a spare so I'm good for awhile. I did find this link for an aftermarket ignitier Toyota Land Cruiser Igniter - Igniters - Genuine Beck Arnley Delphi - 1991 1992 1997 1993 1994 91 92 97 93 94 - PartsGeek.com

Hope this helps.

 

[Tpurdin]

And..... not to doubt you, but we don't know your mechanical aptitude, 1) you verified your spare is a working relay? 2) when you changed out your starter, are you sure you wired everything back correctly? 3) ground problem? Good luck!

I am by no means a mechanic and actually this type of stuff I am terrible at. I hope all was installed right with the starter at the shop I took it to I fact I picked it up yesterday drove home in it and boom stopped working once again. I have not inspected the plug I let for the relay to look for burn marks or carbon.
At first I thought this was a ground issue still might be not sure that's why I'm asking, I've read a lot of posts on the subject matter it all seems to lead to wiring or overheating

 

[Tpurdin]

The OP should have been more descriptive. No start and no crank are very different issues. However, every first reaction is "EFI relay". My 3FE doesn't start. EFI relay. My tire pressure is low. EFI relay. My refrigerator light is out. EFI relay.

Let me clarify after driving for a while, after removing the keys if you try to start the vehicle you get no crank and no start. Turn the key it turns on the cel light etc. but nothing happens. Let it rest for a while, hell one time it took over 24hours to rest before it would restart.

It turns on now. This morning it cranked over, no issues.

I am not blaming the efi relay, their could be multiple factors in this. Just looking for advise from from some senior cruiser experts here, love this truck and want to be able to use it

 

[Tpurdin]

I had a similar problem over the last couple of days in my 91 except mine cut off while driving several times. I too thought it was the EFI relay. It wasn't... It was the Igniter which is located directly under the ignition coil. Now here is the real problem as far as I can tell the igniter is a discontinued part. I had a spare so I'm good for awhile. I did find this link for an aftermarket ignitier Toyota Land Cruiser Igniter - Igniters - Genuine Beck Arnley Delphi - 1991 1992 1997 1993 1994 91 92 97 93 94 - PartsGeek.com

Hope this helps.

Hmmm interesting, I need to read more about this

 

[Marine7]

The OP should have been more descriptive. No start and no crank are very different issues. However, every first reaction is "EFI relay". My 3FE doesn't start. EFI relay. My tire pressure is low. EFI relay. My refrigerator light is out. EFI relay.

Well, on 60-70% of the Cruisers I work on it usually seems to work. I was taught to start simple, and get more complex the deeper you get into it.
If you don't mind re-building things needlessly..... that's fine.

 

[Tpurdin]

.Ok so battery terminals are replaced
.Starter is replaced- mechanic who installed im assuming knows what he is doing, if wired wrong probably wouldn't start
.igniter interesting...would this cause the symptoms of no crank no start? And also be intermittent in wanting to work?
.read about efi wiring leading to fuse box. If this wire overheats will it cause the vehicle to no start no crank?
. Fusable link- pulled the plastic cover off of this, looks to have a coating over the bolts not sure what the coating is?

 

[Tpurdin]

Well, on 60-70% of the Cruisers I work on it usually seems to work. I was taught to start simple, and get more complex the deeper you get into it.
If you don't mind re-building things needlessly..... that's fine.

For sure do not want to have to needlessly rebuild anything hahaha. Want to drive not shop it.

Is their a good write up on the wire replacement process that I am missing somewhere? If this is it I know a few wiring gurus in the dfw area that could possibly help me.

 

[jonheld]

Let me clarify after driving for a while, after removing the keys if you try to start the vehicle you get no crank and no start. Turn the key it turns on the cel light etc. but nothing happens. Let it rest for a while, hell one time it took over 24hours to rest before it would restart.

It turns on now. This morning it cranked over, no issues.

I am not blaming the efi relay, their could be multiple factors in this. Just looking for advise from from some senior cruiser experts here, love this truck and want to be able to use it

The starter circuit is fairly straight forward and has no interaction with any other circuits on the vehicle. Looking at the igniter/ignition or anything else for a "no crank" is futile.

The starter has 2 connections. The large lug on the side is a direct connection to the battery positive terminal. The small clip terminal is the logic signal that fires the starter motor.
The 1st thing to do is verify that you are getting a good +12 at the logic terminal when the key is turned to START. If you are getting a good +12 here then the issue is either a poor connection from the battery (previously mentioned by @SUMMIT CRUISERS) or with the starter itself.

If you're not getting a good +12 at the logic terminal, then the problem is upstream. The current flow for the starter logic path is as follows:
Battery positive terminal/fusible link AM1/fuse AM1/ignition switch/neutral start switch/starter.