80 Series vs Contemporary Domestic Trucks

mudgudgeon

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It seems like the GQ and GU Patrols have quite a dedicated following in Australia. AFAIK, the diffs and axles are stronger than an 80 series, but they're also a bit heavier.

I often wonder why they were never brought to the US. Maybe since the petrol engines were pretty lackluster and they wouldn't bring the diesels here for whatever reason like Toyota.

Definitely popular, and almost every bit on par with the Landcruiser if the same era.

In my terms of diffs bring stronger, Nissan had larger/stronger crown wheel and pinion gear sets, but birfs were smaller and have a small workable turn radius.
Suspension link geometry is not as good on a patrol.
The patrols were less refined, design and styling was a bit behind the curve where as Toyota was a bit ahead with a sleek curvy design when all other 4x4 were square and boxy.

If you compare Nissan Patrol and Toyota Landcruiser if the same vintage, there's pros and cons for both.
Both extremely tough and durable, well designed, pretty much on par in terms of off-road capability. Very similar in terms of overall design and functionality.

My uncle had a diesel patrol that he eventually handed down to his daughter. Last I knew, she still had it, and it has 700+k km on it. Everything original, (except minor maintenance)and it had been used for touring around every state in Australia for decades.

The other 4x4s that can't be ignored in Australia are Landrovers. Landrover Defender, Discovery's, and Range Rovers were all popular, and very capable off-road, though reliability is certainly not on par with Japanese vehicles. And styling and design ergonomics and functionality were kind of stone age.
 

FJ40 that green thing

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There's the old Henry Ford story about looking for the longest lasting parts on his cars & re-engineering them to cost less and have a shorter life. Planned obsolescence so you have to buy more... vs quality & longevity so you want to buy more. Kaizen, jidoka, ikigai, and all the Toyota bits - things I have respect for and am inspired by, and much of the reason why, as a "poor snowboard bum," I'm willing to dedicate more of my income to it.
I would suspect most if not all manufacturers do this to an extent. I had an Audi dealer salesman tell me the german brands Audi, VW and BMW purposely build their vehicles to last about 7 years and purposely become obsolete about that time to keep people buying new on a regular basis. Sad state of consumerism. Would be great if they all built them to last as long as possible.
 

mudgudgeon

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I would suspect most if not all manufacturers do this to an extent. I had an Audi dealer salesman tell me the german brands Audi, VW and BMW purposely build their vehicles to last about 7 years and purposely become obsolete about that time to keep people buying new on a regular basis. Sad state of consumerism. Would be great if they all built them to last as long as possible.
Toyota included.
Hzj105 is a good example. Toyota uses H15# gearboxes in all 80series, and 79 series. In the 105 series the went to R151F for the 1hz powered 105 series, but still used H151F for petrol powered 105 series, and petrol and diesel powered 100 series.

R151F gearbox is what is used in Hilux. They have common failures in the heavy torquey Landcruiser.
There's other examples in Landcruiser stuff
 

ChaseTruck

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Perhaps I should add that we were "overlanding" in my K5 when it was stock height, 33s, and an ARB locker in the rear !/2-ton axle, and didn't even know it.
Camino del Diablo, IIRC ~ 120 miles of desert track down in Southern AZ near the border to Mexico, a tent and camping supplies, extra water & gas, and I think I had a second spare tire on one those the two trips...

I can get parts pretty much anywhere in the US. Good thing, too, because some time after the TBI conversion it has started, like many GM TBI trucks, to munch ignition modules... I suppose it's the equivalent of the fusible link thing with the 80?
 

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Toyota included.
Hzj105 is a good example. Toyota uses H15# gearboxes in all 80series, and 79 series. In the 105 series the went to R151F for the 1hz powered 105 series, but still used H151F for petrol powered 105 series, and petrol and diesel powered 100 series.

R151F gearbox is what is used in Hilux. They have common failures in the heavy torquey Landcruiser.
There's other examples in Landcruiser stuff
What were the common issues with the R geraboxes? They seem very stout in Tacomas and 4runners over here.

Also, I didn't know you could get the IFS 100 series with a manual.
 

mudgudgeon

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What were the common issues with the R geraboxes? They seem very stout in Tacomas and 4runners over here.

Also, I didn't know you could get the IFS 100 series with a manual.

They break
 

mudgudgeon

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They break

5th gear fails, particularly if people tow in 5th.

Landcruiser is a lot heavier than a taco
1hz is a very torquey engine.
The combo kills them.

Do some searching if your interested. There's pics on the net of gears from a H15# and R151 side by side.
The h15# gearboxes are STOUT, each individual gear is much wider, heavier, largerb than what's in r151. They are a light truck gearbox.
 

mudgudgeon

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SaturnAscends

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5th gear fails, particularly if people tow in 5th.

Landcruiser is a lot heavier than a taco
1hz is a very torquey engine.
The combo kills them.

Do some searching if your interested. There's pics on the net of gears from a H15# and R151 side by side.
The h15# gearboxes are STOUT, each individual gear is much wider, heavier, largerb than what's in r151. They are a light truck gearbox.
Do you know if they were in the 90 series Prados with the 3.4 and 1KZ? They seems to hold up well in those applications, but I guess they just don’t like being behind the heavy 1HZ with all that low end torque.
 

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Fun discussion!

I think it's a little off base because the 80 was being rolled out as the era of full size, solid axle domestic trucks came to an end. K5 and RamCharger both discontinued in the early days of 80 production. the 90's bronco stuck around through the same timeframe, but was never available as a solid-axle truck after the late 70's. I think the more fair comparison would be domestics vs 60-series.

Some thoughts on the K5 blazer: you could not buy one with D60/14B axles, it has to be built. So if we're comparing apples to apples, we're talking about a D44 (8.5")/10b (8.2") semi-float blazer, which would be liable to break axles in tough scenarios.

I don't know as much about Ramchargers, but I believe they also came with a D44 front, but the rear axle could be optioned up to a 9.25.

Bronco has IFS (although it's a kind of cool design) also a D44 front and 9" rear.

By comparison, the FJ60 had 9.25" axles front and rear straight from the factory. The FJ60 is built with more beef than all 3 💪 But the Ramcharger or bronco would be roughly equivalent to an fzj80 in diff strength. None of the domestics came with locking differentials, so there's that, Not sure if any of them had a full-float option, I know the bronco and K5 did not.

In terms of drivetrain, 360 or 318 in the Ramcharger only put out high-100's HP, about 20 or so less than a 1fz-fe in a heavier package. The 5.7 available in the K5 was the worst generation GM V8 ever made. 6-cyl power output, 8cyl fuel consumption, unrefined. I had a TBI V8 in my fj62 and I'd barely consider it an upgrade over the 3FE. My 80 felt a little faster, and more refined by miles. Of the big domestics you mention, the Bronco is the only one with a real advantage in powertrain over an fzj80, IMO. All of them could whoop up on an FJ60 though!


That said, I'm sure the real reason toyota enjoyed worldwide renown and use in the bush of Africa, South America, Asia and Australia is because Toyota bothered to market and sell them there. :hillbilly:
FJ40 and FJ60 have 9.5" differentials and the FJ80 rears are 9.5".
 
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Right, that's what I meant :hillbilly:
 

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It seems like the GQ and GU Patrols have quite a dedicated following in Australia. AFAIK, the diffs and axles are stronger than an 80 series, but they're also a bit heavier.

I often wonder why they were never brought to the US. Maybe since the petrol engines were pretty lackluster and they wouldn't bring the diesels here for whatever reason like Toyota.


They were brought to the USA. From 1961-69 Nissan sold 2616 in this country. Then they pulled them, reason; the guy responsible for Nissan/Datsun here in the usa was a sports car guy. He pushed those vs the Patrol/4x4.

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I built a Chevy K10 when I was in high school from a 1960 frame and a 69 Chevy body. It had leaf springs on all 4 corners and a divorced gear driven transfer case (Rockwell T221)

It had the 235 inline 6 and was just about as gutless as my 4.5L in my LC. Both trucks weighed about the same. Top speed on the K10 was about 60 MPH because it only had a 4 speed (SM465), but it had 4.11 gears and 33" tires. it got about 12 MPG, so about the same.

However, the LC has been tighter, quieter, better fit and MUCH stiffer frame and assembly than the pickup. The K10 would flex at the cab/bed intersection when I would articulate through ditches or over terraces.

I had the opportunity a few years ago to drive my LC on the same paths as my old K10. The LC outperformed what the K10 could do by leaps and bounds. it was more under control, did it smoother, and with a lot less popping and banging of various parts.

Mind you, from an approximate cost standpoint, these were light years apart. The parts from NAPA or wherever were never a problem and they always fit and were plentiful.

not until I had my LC had I ever had a vehicle "spit out" aftermarket parts, and for good reason. The tolerances are tighter, the build quality of the individual parts are better, and you don't have to replace them as often.

I put over 300K miles on that old K10, but I turned every bolt on it 2 or 3 times to keep it going and upgrades. When I finally sold it in 1999, it only had the two bucket seats, so it wouldn't work for a family. It had a 350 bored 0.060 over, ported, polished, balanced and was about 375 HP, got 14 MPG on the open highway, and had limited slip diff's front and rear, with locking hubs in front. I pulled loaded dump trucks and semis out of the ditch with this.

My LC is a much better vehicle, but I miss the HP of the old truck. it's interestingf to see the technology differences in suspension and tolerances. i also had to rebuild the engine 3 times on the old Chevy.
 

DSRTRDR

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Some background info on the actual Japan based Toyota factories including Toyota Auto Body…

I’m no expert, but it seems to be in their cultural dna to build cars that last.



I will never buy a Toyota not made in Japan, a BMW M or 911 not made in Germany. Sht like this matters to me as a car enthusiast that values quality, their most complete manifestation of pride in work.

it's greater than a "building-cars-that-last" principle that's in their DNA - in my professional world (science), the vast majority of Japanese scientists deliver the highest quality possible in their work - Japanese artists and architects seem to follow same principles

thanks for the shout-out for German builds - before I left Germany I only had experience with two VWs (the '63 beetle's "light machine" s*** the bed regularly but was easy to wrench on; the Passat with a newly replaced 5-cylinder motor just ran and ran and ran, low gas mileage, and still Autobahn-FAST at that, too :grinpimp:) - our nice W124 LWB Benz drowned in a Louisiana flood just 6 weeks after getting it in 2016, and the '13 i128 Bimmer cabrio is still very new-to-us . . .
 
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it's greater than a "building-cars-that-last" principle that's in their DNA - in my professional world (science), the vast majority of Japanese scientists deliver the highest quality possible in their work - Japanese artists and architects seem to follow same principles

What?
 

DSRTRDR

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DSRTRDR

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The benefits to some domestics is upgraded parts bolt right on almost. It's not unheard of to see a ramcharger with a 5.9 cummins swapped in. It's quite easy to swap in axles that are beefy. You often have many near bolt in upgrades in regards to engines and drivetrains.
If Toyota were to have the number of variations in USA that other countries get, you would find the same with them.

It's only because all the variations begin in USA with the big 3.
 

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