80 series Engine noise Diagnostic - HELP!

[ColoradoCruiser31]

I am looking for some help/advice. This is a long winded post so bear with me.

I recently bought a 1993 80 series 1FZ-FE with 330k miles. I purchased the rig thinking it had some valve tick but after more investigation I begrudgingly admitted it had bottom end noise.

Over the past two weekends I have torn into the truck and haven’t found “the smoking gun”. I haven't found anything obvious to point me at what has been causing the lower end noise.

I first thought the truck has possibly spun a bearing. I spent some time listening around while the truck was running with a pry bar pressed to different areas of the engine while pressed against my ear. The majority of the noise came from the bottom end, directly below the crankshaft pulley.

I began by pulling the two oil pans. This took some time but I got her done. I found some metal in the bottom of the pans but nothing like I would have expected to find when a bearing has given up the goat. Photos attached.

I then inspected all the connecting rod bearings by attempting to move them around looking for any slop. I rotated the engine over by hand inspecting each and found all to be in good condition. Not a single connecting rod seems to be the issue.

I inspected the engine some more and even looked down the cylinders with a endoscope and found factory crosshatching with minor scoring on piston walls. Nothing I’m too afraid of as the engine does have 330 THOUSAND miles.

Looking in the pan some more I found more plastic material than metal. That made me immediately think the timing chain tensioner and guides had gone bad. I pulled the timing chain cover today to find the tensioners and plastic guides to still be in rather good shape. I had ordered a new set last week and plan to replace the guides, chain, and other items they come in the kit I purchased from Yota1 performance.

While pulling the chain off and pulling the lower sprocket I noted the oil pump gear seemed to have some play. This is the gear that stays in the engine when you pull the timing cover/oil pump. When rotating the gear, it seems to rotate 1/8 before engaging with anything. Could this be something causing the noise I heard? Also, after doing more research it sounds like a lot of people have “knocking” sounds when their crank pulley bolt is not tight.

when I took my crank bolt off, I strapped a breaker bar to the frame and used the starter to break the bolt loose. The truck has a brand new starter but even considering that, the bolt seemed to break free way too easily. Watching other videos online, most take the truck a secound or more to break the bolt loose. When I broke my bolt loose, I thought the breaker bar had fallen off the bolt because there was no resistance when I cranked the engine.

I have also come across people saying their oil pumps make knocking noises. Could this be a possibility? Should I investigate that further?

I plan to replace the timing chain when it arrives, and want to start to try and get things back together. What are peoples thoughts and ideas? I have attached a photo of the way the truck sits today 0516/26.

I will upload a video of the “knocking” noise that stared this project and post it below.

Thanks

 

[ColoradoCruiser31]

Video attached of engine noise.

1993 Land Cruiser - 80 Series - Engine noise

 

[ceylonfj40nut]

if oil pump cog has a nick in it, it will cause a ticking noise. Same if you have a crack on the y-header of your exhaust collector pipe. Crank bolt has to be per factory torque or your oil pump will not work well or not at all. Check the lash and teeth on oil pump. Also make sure there is no shaft play on the oil pump gear since it rides on a bronze bushing

 

[ColoradoCruiser31]

if oil pump cog has a nick in it, it will cause a ticking noise. Same if you have a crack on the y-header of your exhaust collector pipe. Crank bolt has to be per factory torque or your oil pump will not work well or not at all. Check the lash and teeth on oil pump. Also make sure there is no shaft play on the oil pump gear since it rides on a bronze bushing

Thanks for the advice.
I’ll take a look at the oil pump today. I haven’t been able to open the oil pump housing. I have broken multiple bits trying to break the screws loose. I plan to pickup an impact screwdriver today.
I think I want to replace the screws with some stainless torx or hex heads instead of Philips head as mine are already looking pretty chewy from the previous owner.
Am I able to pull the oil pump cog out of the short block without causing any issues? Is there anything behind it that would pull out with the cog? I have the timing chain sprocket pulled off the crank and want to keep the crank from moving as I have it timed and ready for timing chain installation. Would turning the cogs next to it cause any timing issues or affect anything?

See photos attached of crank. There is a small scratch I have tried to buff out with quad ott Steele wool. I assume it’s from the previous owner. I was very careful when pulling the timing gear and used no metal tools, just my own mits.

Thanks!

 

[MissahPapaJ]

Thanks for the advice.
I’ll take a look at the oil pump today. I haven’t been able to open the oil pump housing. I have broken multiple bits trying to break the screws loose. I plan to pickup an impact screwdriver today.
I think I want to replace the screws with some stainless torx or hex heads instead of Philips head as mine are already looking pretty chewy from the previous owner.
Am I able to pull the oil pump cog out of the short block without causing any issues? Is there anything behind it that would pull out with the cog? I have the timing chain sprocket pulled off the crank and want to keep the crank from moving as I have it timed and ready for timing chain installation. Would turning the cogs next to it cause any timing issues or affect anything?

See photos attached of crank. There is a small scratch I have tried to buff out with quad ott Steele wool. I assume it’s from the previous owner. I was very careful when pulling the timing gear and used no metal tools, just my own mits.

Thanks!

View attachment 4141942

View attachment 4141943

Search TONE tools Japan P3 on Amazon and buy the JIS 3H-P3 3/8ths socket it’s the only way to fly when it comes to oil pump hardware on the 1FZ and 3RZ. Once you have this you really don’t need to change fastener type. That socket fits so snug into the hardware it’s borderline amazing. You’ll be pooping in tall cotton in no time. Also hex isn’t an upgrade compared to what’s already there. I believe Cruiser Outfitters has an oil pump seal and hardware kit but don’t quote me.

 

[ColoradoCruiser31]

Thanks for the advice.
I’ll take a look at the oil pump today. I haven’t been able to open the oil pump housing. I have broken multiple bits trying to break the screws loose. I plan to pickup an impact screwdriver today.
I think I want to replace the screws with some stainless torx or hex heads instead of Philips head as mine are already looking pretty chewy from the previous owner.
Am I able to pull the oil pump cog out of the short block without causing any issues? Is there anything behind it that would pull out with the cog? I have the timing chain sprocket pulled off the crank and want to keep the crank from moving as I have it timed and ready for timing chain installation. Would turning the cogs next to it cause any timing issues or affect anything?

See photos attached of crank. There is a small scratch I have tried to buff out with quad ott Steele wool. I assume it’s from the previous owner. I was very careful when pulling the timing gear and used no metal tools, just my own mits.

Thanks!

View attachment 4141942

View attachment 4141943

I got the oil pump cover off.

Internals look good. My maintenance book says to check the oil pump relief valve by pouring oil into the valve hole. I poured 5w-30 in to hole because that’s the oil weight I have on hand and it’s pooling and not passing though. See photo.

I also checked clearances and everything is in spec. 0.100mm feeler gauge fits nicely with just a little drag. My book says standard body clearance should be 0.100 - 0.170mm (0.0039 - 0.0067 in.).
Maximum body clearance is 0.30mm (0.0118in) for those concerned.

I’m going to pull the valve and see if I can clean it and get it functional again. Should I just order a new one? I’ve found one or two online. Does anyone have any recommendations for replacements?

Thanks!

 

[ColoradoCruiser31]

Search TONE tools Japan P3 on Amazon and buy the JIS 3H-P3 3/8ths socket it’s the only way to fly when it comes to oil pump hardware on the 1FZ and 3RZ. Once you have this you really don’t need to change fastener type. That socket fits so snug into the hardware it’s borderline amazing. You’ll be pooping in tall cotton in no time. Also hex isn’t an upgrade compared to what’s already there. I believe Cruiser Outfitters has an oil pump seal and hardware kit but don’t quote me.

View attachment 4141954

Thanks! I’ll have to pick one up.
I wasn’t having issues with stripping the screws, the bits I had fit snug. My issue was snapping off the head of the driver.

The screws on the housing were really on there.
I read in another forum that people had great success shocking these screws loose. I took a hammer and snug fitting bit and smacked each screw head until my ears bled them tried to loosten each. Worked pretty well! Each screw took 20-30 smackaroos.

Food for thought… hammers fix everything?

 

[MissahPapaJ]

Thanks! I’ll have to pick one up.
I wasn’t having issues with stripping the screws, the bits I had fit snug. My issue was snapping off the head of the driver.

The screws on the housing were really on there.
I read in another forum that people had great success shocking these screws loose. I took a hammer and snug fitting bit and smacked each screw head until my ears bled them tried to loosten each. Worked pretty well! Each screw took 20-30 smackaroos.

Food for thought… hammers fix everything?

It’s always hammer and chisel with 80 series

 

[MissahPapaJ]

Thanks! I’ll have to pick one up.
I wasn’t having issues with stripping the screws, the bits I had fit snug. My issue was snapping off the head of the driver.

The screws on the housing were really on there.
I read in another forum that people had great success shocking these screws loose. I took a hammer and snug fitting bit and smacked each screw head until my ears bled them tried to loosten each. Worked pretty well! Each screw took 20-30 smackaroos.

Food for thought… hammers fix everything?

Where that socket really shines is you can shock it into the hardware by tapping it with a brass hammer prior to slapping it with a 3/8 adapter in a 1/4” impact or if you have a designated 3/8 impact, it makes short work of the hardware never had issues after picking up that socket. Give it a squirt of penetrating oil prior to the tapping and they’ll come out easy squeeze.

 

[ppc]

The other possible source of a ticking sound is a nick in the power steering gear. There are plenty of posts on the subject you can search.

 

[ColoradoCruiser31]

The other possible source of a ticking sound is a nick in the power steering gear. There are plenty of posts on the subject you can search.

Thanks!

I had read a few about the power steering and oil pump gears causing that noise. I read someone just unbolts the power steering gear with a leather glove and impact gun. I was thinking about giving that a try. Am I able to pull the power steering gear and oil pump gear out of the engine without causing any issues or pieces/fluid pouring out from behind them? Just want to be prepared for when I do inevitably pull them looking for what could cause that noise.

I inspected the gear that sits behind the timing chain sprocket on the crank. No visible nicks and I even wore some cloths gloves and inspected and ran my fingers over every tooth to feel for any. None, gear looks good.

I read there is supposed to be a brass spacer behind the oil pump gear for spacing? Is that true or did I misunderstand that. If there is supposed to be one and I’m missing it I wonder if they could be the source of the sound.

I’ll check the other gears sometime this week or weekend. Thanks again!

 

[Irish Reiver]

When I was rebuilding my '96 I discovered metal in the pan and started down the road of a rebuild. Similar to what you have I also found no issues with bearings and similar wear surfaces. As I was starting to rebuild it I noticed the bearing that the oil pump sits on was warn and one of the little jigsaw piece shaped joins was gone. I got a replacement from @landtank and haven't had any issues since.

 

[ColoradoCruiser31]

When I was rebuilding my '96 I discovered metal in the pan and started down the road of a rebuild. Similar to what you have I also found no issues with bearings and similar wear surfaces. As I was starting to rebuild it I noticed the bearing that the oil pump sits on was warn and one of the little jigsaw piece shaped joins was gone. I got a replacement from @landtank and haven't had any issues since.

View attachment 4143213

Thanks for the comment.

I will have to looo at my bushing and inspect the oil pump gears to be sure that’s not where my noise is coming from. I still haven’t found anything that sticks out to me that could cause the noise.
I believe before I bought the truck the power steering pump was replaced. Is there some kind of adjustment to the gear that could help with the meshing of the oil pump and power steering pump gears? Would something between those two gears cause issues? I will inspect both for uneven wear and nicks.

Thanks!

 

[ColoradoCruiser31]

Finally got a chance to look some more at the truck yesterday. Oil pump gear bushing looks good, I will double check it today. The gear itself looks Alright as well.

When I inspected the power steering pump gear that meshes with the oil pump gear, it had some damage. Please see photo below.

In the photo, the circled red portion shows where some of the teeth of the gear has seemingly been nicked and dented. Possibly done by the previous owner when working on the power steering pump?

I plan to pull the gear today and inspect it a bit more. Should I source a replacement for this gear or do you think taking a metal file and cleaning up the teeth will quiet the noise the gear is making?

What do you think @ppc and @ceylonfj40nut ? You both thought gear damage could be the cause for the noise. Do you think cleaning up the gear will help with the noise or should I replace the gear or the pump completely? The gear damage catches my finger pretty good and is pretty rough.

I’ll do some work on the truck and power steering pump gear today and try to update this post.

Thanks for all the input MUD!

 

[Irish Reiver]

Back in 2022 I had to replace the pump because of a big hole in the back of it. I removed the gear using the instructions in the FSM and when I put it back together I now had the ticking. I was not able to detect any damage on the teeth and ended up replacing the gear which solved the issue. The PNR for the gear is 44316-60020 and I paid $136.88 for mine from what was McGeorge (Now Ourisman). Today's price from my local toyota shop is a whopping $222.40.

At those prices I would be inclined to attempt some repair with a file but just don't get your hopes up.

By the way you can run the engine for a minute with the pump removed to help isolate the noise. If the ticking is gone then you know the gear is the guilty party.

 

[ppc]

What do you think @ppc and @ceylonfj40nut ? You both thought gear damage could be the cause for the noise. Do you think cleaning up the gear will help with the noise or should I replace the gear or the pump completely? The gear damage catches my finger pretty good and is pretty rough.

Based upon the fact others have had the same problem and don't see the level of damage that you have I think any attempt to repair would be a wasted effort. A new pump doesn't come with the gear so buying a new pump or rebuilding the old is an independent choice. I'm sure you don't want to pull things apart a second time.

 

[ColoradoCruiser31]

Back in 2022 I had to replace the pump because of a big hole in the back of it. I removed the gear using the instructions in the FSM and when I put it back together I now had the ticking. I was not able to detect any damage on the teeth and ended up replacing the gear which solved the issue. The PNR for the gear is 44316-60020 and I paid $136.88 for mine from what was McGeorge (Now Ourisman). Today's price from my local toyota shop is a whopping $222.40.

At those prices I would be inclined to attempt some repair with a file but just don't get your hopes up.

By the way you can run the engine for a minute with the pump removed to help isolate the noise. If the ticking is gone then you know the gear is the guilty party.

Thanks Irish!

Yeah I don’t think I’m going to get the gear fully filed out. I think I’ll have to buy a new one. The gear has some more damage than I thought originally. See photos below.

Top is before and bottom is after. I did the best I could but the gear is a lot more chewed up than I originally thought. This was the major damage area but there were multiple teeth that had damage and one that seemed to be bent. I tried my best to get things looking the best I could.

The other gears all look good with no damage or uneven wear.

I will have to decide if I button up everything since I can just pull the pump with the gear out without pulling the pans and timing chain. I’d be curious how well I did with the file and if the truck would still tick that loudly.

For now, I have started to get the timing chain back together. I installed a new OSK timing set from Japan. Got it from Yota1 performance. Photo below.

I have to order some new o rings and other small things so ordering another gear might be in the cards. Seems like the previous owner threw the pump around and messed up the gear.

Thanks again for the advice!

 

[ColoradoCruiser31]

Based upon the fact others have had the same problem and don't see the level of damage that you have I think any attempt to repair would be a wasted effort. A new pump doesn't come with the gear so buying a new pump or rebuilding the old is an independent choice. I'm sure you don't want to pull things apart a second time.

PPC,

Thanks for getting back to me. Sourcing a new gear would be tough I think. I haven’t looked around but I imagine it’s going to be pricy. I will see what I can find.

For now, l did my best the clean up the gear. I replied to another post here with photos. I’m starting to button up other odds and ends. I installed a new OSK timing gear from YOTA1 performance. I need to order some new o rings and other odds and ends so sourcing a new gear or pump with a gear may be in the cards.

What do you think about aftermarket pumps? I’d like to keep things as OEM as possible but I know sometimes that’s just too hard.

Thanks!