80 series , crank no start (1 Viewer)

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Hi there guys look ngvtime listener , first time caller...

I have an petrol powered 80 series 94 model that's decided to stop was running perfect then turned key off went to restart made a wierd I'm going to fire /no I'm not noise and that was that , it will start if stuff is sprayed down the air inlet but dies after you stop spraying, I was told it was the fuel filter but after undoing both sides it's got flow and is fine , replaced in tank pump as it was dead ( I actually thought of this first thinking it was only this but no ) cel is on and will go off if I remove EFI relay but changing relay has no effect has anybody had similar experiences? ... Oh yeah it's an Australian 80 so driver's seat is on the right
Looking forward to any advice
 
Hi there guys look ngvtime listener , first time caller...

I have an petrol powered 80 series 94 model that's decided to stop was running perfect then turned key off went to restart made a wierd I'm going to fire /no I'm not noise and that was that , it will start if stuff is sprayed down the air inlet but dies after you stop spraying, I was told it was the fuel filter but after undoing both sides it's got flow and is fine , replaced in tank pump as it was dead ( I actually thought of this first thinking it was only this but no ) cel is on and will go off if I remove EFI relay but changing relay has no effect has anybody had similar experiences? ... Oh yeah it's an Australian 80 so driver's seat is on the right
Looking forward to any advice
It's not the fuel filter or pump.

The fuel pump on these does not run until the ECU sees engine rotation via the distributor.

Your problem is typical of two places:
1) Did you remove the two screws on the AFM and tug on the harness to see if you can get it loose? If you did, you wrecked it. If not, DON'T!

2) The plug on top of the distributor frequently will have a broken wire or bad plug. Check it carefully for damage.
 
It's not the fuel filter or pump.

The fuel pump on these does not run until the ECU sees engine rotation via the distributor.

Your problem is typical of two places:
1) Did you remove the two screws on the AFM and tug on the harness to see if you can get it loose? If you did, you wrecked it. If not, DON'T!

2) The plug on top of the distributor frequently will have a broken wire or bad plug. Check it carefully for damage.
Definitely haven't yanked on any plugs , will investigate distributor , but would not spraying stuff down the airway and having the engine run show that dist is ok ?
Would it be the fusible link ? I'm sure there was a puff of smoke coming from the battery area before no start , but I could be imagining it in my search for answers
 
Get a meter and measure voltage on each fusible link (the non-battery end). At least verify there's 12V there and that it's also there when cranking - get a mate to help.

If it starts/runs spraying into the intake, then likely a fueling issue. If the fuel pump & filter are ok, then it's the injectors not firing. They have a common +12V with the ECU 'pulsing' to ground to fire them. A stethoscope would let you hear if they are clicking while cranking or running while spraying into the inlet.

Anyhow, check the links first. Then check all the fuses in the EFI path.

cheers,
george.
 
We all forgot to ask the magic question!

Do you have a CEL with ignition in RUN position, engine off?
 
The fact that you have a CEL tells you the computer sees what it needs to be in a ready state to start.

That would indicate that your FL are good.

Again, because it will run with starting fluid, I would lean towards the VAF.
 
VAF ...? Is that the MAF as it's known here ( floppy thing in air inlet )
Depending on year.
AFM 91-92
VAF 93-94
MAF 95-97

I may have the first two swapped on terms.

These are NOT interchangeable other than these groups.
 
Depending on year.
AFM 91-92
VAF 93-94
MAF 95-97

I may have the first two swapped on terms.

These are NOT interchangeable other than these groups.
Ok , now we have that sorted out there was no signs of failure when car ran whilst stuff was sprayed down airway , no rough idle, no variable rpm , and car revved when accelerator was pushed and reacted in usual way ( increase rev then decrease revs ) , could the relays on the EFI path be burnt as I could not hear them open close while stuff was sprayed down airway ,

Again thanks
 
No, that's not the problem. There are no relays n the intake path, just sensors. The ECU collects sensor data and uses it to control the engine. If you have no VAF input, you won't have a running engine.

I'm with @george_tlc on this one.
 
Just like @george_tlc suggested. Listen for the injectors opening and closing.

Just like @george_tlc suggested. Listen for the injectors opening and closing.
Just like @george_tlc suggested. Listen for the injectors opening and closing.
Ok , I give up ,I'm at the end of my wits and out of ideas, I've had a "breakdown mechanic" come and "diagnose " it and after 45 minutes ( and $100 ) testing the things I told him it wasn't he told me it was my injectors not firing what could not tell me the cause I know that its possible that the ecu may have decided to die but before I go down that expensive path is it possible that there's a fuse/relay/whatever that has burnt out ? I've tried looking for a circuit diagram but had no luck ( 96/1fzfe/gxl) any help would be greatly appreciated
 
No trouble. The entire FSM is in the Resources section for free download, but here's the EWD, engine control and starting & ignition excerpts. LMK if you can't find other documentation that you need.

There is a fuel pump relay in the engine compartment of the left side fender, near the windshield washer diverter valve. At least that's where it is on ours. There is also a circuit opening relay in the left kick panel. Again, NA builds. Yours might be the other way around. I attached the component location diagrams for you.
 

Attachments

  • Engine Control, 1996 EWD excerpt.pdf
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  • Component location.pdf
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  • Starting and ignition, 1996 EWD excerpt.pdf
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There's also an extensive troubleshooting matrix. I don't have it for the 1996, but I do for the 1995; should be the same. HTH
 

Attachments

  • 1995, Engine Control, Troubleshooting, Matrix Chart of Problem Symptoms.pdf
    38.7 KB · Views: 40
  • 1995, Engine Control, Troubleshooting, Parts Location.pdf
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There's a quick check you can make to determine if the ECU is at fault. The injector pins at the ECU should read between 9-14VDC with the key on.
The E4-E7 below are the ECU ports as you see them when you remove harness connectors. As stated below, insert the probe into the harness connector from the rear (your side), when it's plugged into the ECU.

E01 is ground.

1680057930316.png


1680057958628.png


You can also check the operation of the injectors, individually, this away, if you can get the engine running, and if you have an oscilloscope.
 
There's also an extensive troubleshooting matrix. I don't have it for the 1996, but I do for the 1995; should be the same.
There's a quick check you can make to determine if the ECU is at fault. The injector pins at the ECU should read between 9-14VDC with the key on.
The E4-E7 below are the ECU ports as you see them when you remove harness connectors. As stated below, insert the probe into the harness connector from the rear (your side), when it's plugged into the ECU.

E01 is ground.

View attachment 3285116

View attachment 3285117

You can also check the operation of the injectors, individually, this away, if you can get the engine running, and if you have an oscilloscope.
 
Thanks again ,

I've used your fault table to shorten the list of possibles down to two probables which are fuel pump relay and ECM , I have undone the section of fuel hose between the filter and the inlet manifold and there is fuel when cranked so I think I'm left with just the ecu/ECM unit path , unfortunately my supplier is incredibly reluctant to accept it back if I do buy it from him put it in and it's not the issue...
 
As long as you have a simple digital multumeter, you can check the operation of the ECU. Swapping a new one in isn't actually the easiest, or most cost effective, way to resolve the problem, until an actual fault is found.
 

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