70 Series Intercooler Debate (1 Viewer)

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I want to get some input on this.

My next stage of modifications is an intercooler.

I have been having been toying with a bunch of ideas on which route I should go. Top mount, water to air, front mount. Everyone can argue which is better and why.

At this point I am ruling out running a W2A system for a few reasons.
1) Efficiency (which is debatable I know)
2) Simplicity (I like simple systems not running pumps and lines and a separate radiator
3) Under the hood room
4) unlikelihood of core failure putting water into my engine.

I don't have the room under the bonnet like the 80 series crowd unfortunately.

I am between running a top mount or a front mount.

Top Mount:

I am between running a few different ideas.
First would be buying the HPD top mount.

Landcruiser-top-mount-intercooler2.jpg


http://hpdiesel.com.au/toyota-landc...ruiser-top-mount-75-79-series-intercooler-kit

It has been confirmed talking to a few people that the kit can be bought from ebay at better than half the cost. Direct bolt up with no issues. One of my sources have mentioned that they saw a good EGT drop fitting this cooler.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/TOYOTA-Land-...Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d0c8dbd43&vxp=mtr

For everyone looking at the kit the seller is very helpful at answering questions. The fan pulls 1500cfm and can be supplied with 12 or 24v fans. They also have 2 bonnet scoop options. He can also subtract the scoop and give a discount if you want to run a different one.

The the other top mount idea that I am having a debate with is just running a simple $100 ebay core, spal fan, designing a custom plenum and trying to make it all fit. There isn't much room under the hood if I mess up ordering a intercooler too large, fitting a fan underneath and trying to adapt that to a plenum while getting it to fit centralized under a bonnet scoop.

Outlet of the turbo compressor is 2" and the inlet of the intercooler is 2". Can this be a restriction, is it worth it for me to jump to 3" as soon as possible or even 2.5"?

Pros:
1) Bolt up
2) Cost ($650 to my door for the intercooler)

Cons:
1) finding a hood scoop I like (which is posing to be an issue)
2) cutting a hole in my nice hood!
3) core is small (insufficient cooling?)
3) if I don't go the custom route I can't do an enlarged plenum
4) Intercooler fan my suck and be no real benefit because it does not have the pulling power
5) fitting a better fan may not have room

Reasons why I am considering the enlarged plenum:
1) better throttle response
2) lowered EGTs
3) lowerly likelihood of cylinder leaning out air in 1 & 6

Front Mount

I have been told time and time again (mainly be Graeme) that the best thing to do is to fit the largest front mount I can humanly fit.
I have been looking into ways I can fit one. My only option at this point is to do a slight modification with the front valence and the grill.

HPD has a kit ($1300 + shipping) which is too steep for my budget. Not to mention I think their piping system is below par reading other people review (too many silicone bends). I would rather get piping welded and do as little silicone as possible.

Clint79's job
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http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=93916&start=45

HPD's kit for reference
Screen Shot 2013-05-15 at 12.34.10 AM.jpg

Pros:
1) I figure this would be the cheapest route and most simplistic
2) I could fit do a custom plenum with this setup
3) Engine fan is the ultimate puller fan

My only concerns with going front mount:
1) Turbo Lag due to increase piping
2) Airflow from obstructions
3) Susceptible to getting clogged with mud

Airflow is my concern because I am running an ARB bumper on my truck. I am also switching to an 8274 Warn and I run two big fog lights. Looking at Huslty's build there will be enough clearance for the intercooler behind the winch with an ARB bar.

Think this will be an issue for getting sufficient air to the intercooler?

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Lastly, Intercooler piping size.

I have heard go as big as I can fit 3" (more air the better) while I have heard just stick to 2.5" piping.
I have a whole bunch of 3" stainless that could be used :hmm:

Thoughts?

Screen Shot 2013-05-15 at 12.34.10 AM.jpg
 
If your into custom fab work I would definitely go with the front mount intercooler like Clint's setup. The bigger the better.
A mate of mine has a top mount on his 1hz ( although not the same brand as you mentioned ) and was around the 50% efficiency range with a thermo on top.
 
If it's air/air go front mount.

If not, go a decent water/air.
 
If your into custom fab work I would definitely go with the front mount intercooler like Clint's setup. The bigger the better.
A mate of mine has a top mount on his 1hz ( although not the same brand as you mentioned ) and was around the 50% efficiency range with a thermo on top.

I am assuming its either a Cross Country or DTS top mount kit.
I can't bring myself to pay for their kits.
That efficiency rating is crap and was something I was curious about.

Pricey I know, but this is the option I was looking at for top mount breathing seeing as I don't think any scoops suit the original bonnet at all

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=321123133997

I seriously considered going this route.
But at $770 dollars a hood and close to that just for getting the thing to Canada. No thanks. No to mention I would have to still get it painted and then there is the gamble of trying to fit a top mount and sealing it properly. No thanks.
 
I vote you go for a front mount intercooler. The worst intercooler I ever had was a top mount. It's hard to fight the fact that heat rises, and engine bays are full of heat. And who wants a big fan sucking in the elements and spreading them over the top of your engine?

Stick with 2.5" piping to make routing easier, and reduce air volume between the turbo and intake manifold (reduce lag potential). It should flow fine for your displacement.

Stick with aluminum piping, as it will help to shed heat as well. Get the piping tig welded if you know someone that can do it, and only use couplers where needed to allow you to service/remove the system if needed.

Use a 2.5" in/out intercooler to match your piping.

Mount the intercooler as high up behind the grill as possible to avoid the issues of poor airflow and mud/debris.

Don't cheap out. I've made that mistake a few times. Intercooler systems can get pricey, but a good system is well worth the investment.

I'm going water/air on my Prado only because I have no choice if I want to retain the A/C (which my wife does). I've got ALL the pieces ready to go, and will be installing sometime in the next 4 weeks before summer hits. I'll post some pics once it's done. I'm using 2" aluminum piping because I had it left over from my MR2 intercooler piping kit, and my engine is a little 2.4, so doesn't flow much air compared to a 4.2 anyhow.

Post #6 in this thread shows a basic but effective front mount on a Prado. I know the HD grill is different though, so not sure if you can mount your cooler up high like in the Prado. https://forum.ih8mud.com/70-series-tech/473901-how-install-intercooler-91-prado-ex5-2l-te.html

Good luck!
 
I think it depends what your priorities are. A top mount will heat soak at slow speeds, so if you want peak efficiency for wheeling or in town, sounds like you have to buck up for a front mount or air to water. I went with a top mount air to air because it's a more cost effective and I was interested in better performance at freeway towing speeds and up hills.....I guess it also depends on what kind of power you are aspiring to obtain.....

Nice rig by the way.:cool:
 
I would do a front mounted if engine / AC cooling is not an issue for you / your Cruiser where you ride or will ride ..
 
The heat soak issue is a worthless argument if all you care about is power pulling hills on the freeway, or if you mount a good high amp fan. In which case then heat soak is a matter of choice. If you take away a front mounts fan you will also get crappy results. It just happens to have a massive enigne fan working for it all the time. A top mount fan can do some good numbers effeciency wise, but it is definately tighter on space. If your cooling system is maxed, then a front mount will only make your problem even worse. Where as a top mount has shown to drop my engine bay temps dramatically and my engine runs cooler all the time. The only real drawback for top mount is fitment, which is not insignifigant, but doable. Front mount cooler also run lower effeciencies based on core size. If you go a custom set up then you can fit quite large cores, but it is work.
 
I ran a thin intercooler in front of my 2H and had great results. Its a front mount that is shielded by the ARB and winch like your application. 2.5" inlet and outlet if I remember. Dropped EGT 150-200f for me running 20psi max boost. I never measured effciency but would like to some day with the right tooling. Front mounts I think are the most popular OEM option. They seem like the best bet but you will be tight for space in the 77... Best of luck
 
Did a quick poke around on how I would run piping. Its going to be really freaking tight. Maybe too tight.
I might have to get technical this weekend with some measurements. Since fitting the third battery it makes space REALLY tight.

The way I see it at this point if I can fit 3" i might as well use it.
I still have 15' + 304ss from my exhaust job and I want to use it.

looking at this:
http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchan...CXR&Product_Code=IC0006-30&Category_Code=INCO
 
Based on the turbo you have and my experiences with a big plenum I would remove the fear of lag from your FMIC equation.

If you're going to go from 2" turbo outlet to 3" pipe, find a way to do it smoothly and gradually. I had a harsh 2.25 - 3" jump (and then another back down to 2.25" and it was wrong. Just wrong.

Your winch does sit high and with the lights you are blocking a lot of potential air through the grille. I have a bit of that going on with my lights but I'm kind of fond of them and so is the deer that lived to see another day because of them a few weeks ago!
 
Hey have you thought about water injection. I run it in my truck and love it. It out cools any intercooler. And when you won't extra power add some methanol to the mix. I've been running it for a few years now and the truck runs a lot cooler even with it turned of as it as cleaned all the crap out of the engine.
 
Top Mount Hood Scoop

You can get some nice hood scoops from Japan. Starts adding up to the cost of a front mount with the scoop and fan though (not debating which is better)

dcf00014.jpg
 
I love the cyclops look with that 70!
Most top mount intercoolers I have seen seem to have a very undersized scoops or its poorly placed on the hood. I think its hard to have a top mount intercooler and hide it and have it get enough air flow to work.
 
893037_10151850537079552_1249378923_o.jpg


Why hide the scoop?

I grafted a Vdj scoop to the bonnet of my 75, massive and looks the part.
 
If you take away a front mounts fan you will also get crappy results. It just happens to have a massive enigne fan working for it all the time.

If your cooling system is maxed, then a front mount will only make your problem even worse.

I have to debate this engine fan theory vs front mount ATA part Gerg. I've run alot of tests and this isn't correct.



A thin enough front mount ATA with a thermal fan added (pusher) will work ALOT better at low speeds and increase your AC's efficency.
 
Gerg you are right about the poorly fitted ones for the 75 series, could not find one that suited so had to make own from fiberglass, plenty big enough for the top mount but will still be going the path of front mount. Front grill pictured is spare fitted while other is being modded slightly for front mount, may even take a mould off this grill and make one from scratch out of glass as the stock plastic is more fragile than it looks and nothing seems to want to bond to it to my satisfaction.

IMG_1983.jpg
 
That 76 looks nice.
My truck will be de-flared and have skinnies on it in about a months time.

My main goal is to get the best intercooler efficiency that I will be able to fit, from what I understand its the biggest core I can fit.

That being said I tried to look at some pipe routing last night.
Since I have fitted the third battery tray under the hood this takes up a lot of room and traditional pipe routing.
3" pipe will not fit unfortunately, I have been told by a few others that 2.5" will do the job.
Another rough measurement I can potentially get a 3.5" pipe to fit the top of my manifold and still clear the hood. I may still have access to 2.5" stainless.
 
This is Locked79s set up:

Around 65% efficiency for this w2a setup.
Running 2 type 16 FrozenBoost coolers modded together.
24x12x1" radiator

Now I don't know if its better to have a larger coolant reserve or what to make it more efficient. He has also put a large spal fan on the back to help pull air through the core.

I don't know if you can fit a thicker core than that under the hood of a 70 series with the narrow front. That cooler is 3.5" thick and you can still buy one that is 4.5" thick.

All tucked in there:

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