*J45/47 Body Style, Frame Dates, and Production Numbers(revised). (1 Viewer)

[Greek Cruiserhead]

Thank-you, @Greek Cruiserhead . Would have been nice if they included a photo of the VIN plate in that magazine article.

I wonder if that is among the earliest Troopies, being RHD. Perhaps someone has a Troopy from the Middle East or elsewhere that is older or points to their production starting in 1975 or 1976? Maybe a dated sales brochure from that period showing photos of available models?

You're welcome mate!
It seems that a pic of the shield with all its details was not so important for Overlander's readers back in 1977. We know at least, from the specs they published, that this is a FJ45R-K JQ...
...and yes, a Middle East search for these early Troopies is worthwhile: Expat Mudders in the area this is your turn now!

Greetings from Greece,
Demetrios

 

[Greek Cruiserhead]

Hi Bear, did you ask for a shield pic?

For Sale - 1977 FJ45 factory soft top with aftermarket hard top - Tasmania, Australia

G'day all, I posted this in the classifieds section but maybe this is the better place for it... 1977 Toyota FJ45 R-KJQ, rare three seater factory soft top with aftermarket fiberglass top. Fully rebuilt 2F petrol engine in very good condition. New carbourettor, plus a near new spare. New...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Bear]

Thank-you Demetrios @Greek Cruiserhead .

That Troopy's Australian reg plate shows 7/1977 with a frame number FJ45-152392. I don't have access to a frame chart between 1968 and 8/1980, but that number looks approximately correct. Based upon that I will amend what I have posted earlier to adjust the start date for FJ45 Troopy to be 7/1977. Please post up if you discover any Troopies built earlier than that.

I will leave the Bj and HJ Troopy start dates as written unless someone comes up with earlier evidence.

Bravo for documenting this !

 

[Greek Cruiserhead]

You're always welcome mate!
PS. The Troopy in the mag is (at least) as early as 6/1977: does it count as a valid evidence to you, to start counting in June instead of July?

 

[Bear]

Amended--guessing that's the publishing date of the magazine article?

I have a hunch the start date for the Troopy body might be as early as 1/1975 (or possibly 7/1974 in Australia) to coincide with FJ40 production changes on those dates. Hopefully someone will chime-in.

The problem with collecting all these dates is the lack of consistency as to the type of date reported. Using published factory production data keyed to the frame-stamped serial numbers seems to be the most accurate way of cataloging each model--but availability of that data is not complete, hence this thread about such info. The titling and registration of vehicles sometimes years after their manufacture, the custom in some nations to start a year's model introduction in September of the preceding year, the addition of aluminum or brass discs to a "VIN" plate, as well as rough "recollections" of seeing something from years long ago, only makes for confusion among the public.

Added to all that are the additions/subtractions/recreations done by prior owners, and the waters get very muddy.

So thank-you to all who contribute their knowledge of this; we will try to fill in the blanks when info comes in !

 

[cult45]

I'm not on here much but here's some info from Australia.

HJ47 avail. in troop carrier and ute variations. 08/80 - sometime at the end of 1984 [either 08/1984 as the standard start of the new production year or 12/84 in this special case due to the end of the series]
Troopy body avail. 1977 onwards, first as an FST and then as a hard top. I only know this because I've seen a 1977 FST troop carrier in the flesh plus a magazine article from 1977. The first hard top I've seen was built sometime in 1979 and was a HJ45.
I believe no BJ45's made it down here.
I know of two late 1961 FJ45 fixed tops.

The federal government began a program where compliance plates were added in 1970, month unsure. It was an additional alloy plate riveted to the firewall that stated the Australian Design Rules that the vehicle adhered to.

 

[Bear]

@cult45 Daniel,

Thank-you for the data and corrections. The 1977 Troopy magazine article may be the one referenced earlier here by @Greek Cruiserhead which has been previously amended on the above list. Also amended is the start year for the fixed top shorty to 1961, but still no starting month known.

Question for you or someone who knows: the early pickup trucks had short beds and were given model designations such as FJ45P for RHD and FJ45LP for LHD. When the longer bed pickup trucks became available they were distinguished-- when gas-engined-- by the addition of a "-B" such as FJ45P-B for RHD and FJ45LP-B for LHD.

The question is how did the factory designate the diesel-engined BJ45, HJ45, and HJ47 pickup truck versions, which were all longbeds? Was it also with a "-B" such as BJ45P-B and BJ45LP-B, HJ45P-B and HJ45LP-B, HJ47P-B and HJ47LP-B, or something different or not at all?

And another question: for the Troopies: hard tops would be with a "V" for example: FJ45V and FJ45LV"? How would the canvas top Troopy be designated: with a "TP" for example FJ45TP and FJ45LTP <---------this can't be correct?

A final question: was there a HJ45 Troopy, and if yes, an ending date for production of it?

A big thank-you to all who have volunteered info. Answers and corrections are welcomed, as well as a critical eye on any of this !

MS

 

[locklaw]

@cult45 Daniel,

Thank-you for the data and corrections. The 1977 Troopy magazine article may be the one referenced earlier here by @Greek Cruiserhead which has been previously amended on the above list. Also amended is the start year for the fixed top shorty to 1961, but still no starting month known.

Question for you or someone who knows: the early pickup trucks had short beds and were given model designations such as FJ45P for RHD and FJ45LP for LHD. When the longer bed pickup trucks became available they were distinguished-- when gas-engined-- by the addition of a "-B" such as FJ45P-B for RHD and FJ45LP-B for LHD.

The question is how did the factory designate the diesel-engined BJ45, HJ45, and HJ47 pickup truck versions, which were all longbeds? Was it also with a "-B" such as BJ45P-B and BJ45LP-B, HJ45P-B and HJ45LP-B, HJ47P-B and HJ47LP-B, or something different or not at all?

And another question: for the Troopies: hard tops would be with a "V" for example: FJ45V and FJ45LV"? How would the canvas top Troopy be designated: with a "TP" for example FJ45TP and FJ45LTP <---------this can't be correct?

A final question: was there a HJ45 Troopy, and if yes, an ending date for production of it?

A big thank-you to all who have volunteered info. Answers and corrections are welcomed, as well as a critical eye on any of this !

MS

No, RHD diesel HJ45's and HJ47's were merely marked as such with the relevant suffix such as "RP", "RP-K", etc as far as I have seen -

 

[Bear]

Thank-you, @locklaw . Is Plant Z51 an assembly plant in South Africa? Would the full frame numbers of your above vehicles be HJ45-021112 and HJ47-016821, or are they simply just the numbers stamped on the "VIN" plates pictured with no additional lettering? I'm aware that at some point Toyota began to add the "R" letter to the RHD model numbers, but unsure if that ever got stamped onto a frame. There was a lack of consistency very early in the 1960s with using or not using the "L" for the LHD vehicles.

I don't have access to Venezuelan, Brazilian, or South African frame numbers/frame number charts, or any charts for HJ45 production. I am guessing these frames and the vehicles constructed on them are in addition to the frames listed as coming from the TMC Honsya plant in Japan? If so, then the overall volume of 45/47 bodies I have listed needs to be increased, but unsure of the overall numbers. There is a published frame number HJ47-016821 for February 1982 from the Honsya Toyota Motor Corp plant, and I would imagine that your frame must have come from Japan pre-stamped with that number. If it is your own personal vehicle, I'm curious what exactly is stamped on the RH front frame.

If you have access to any South African frame charts or a website to research, I would greatly appreciate your help and any leads you can provide. I don't speak or read Afrikaans, but numbers are simple enough. Somewhere I have a set of some frame number charts from Russia printed years ago, but again, published data is hard to find.

Thank-you for posting !

MS

 

[locklaw]

Thank-you, @locklaw . Is Plant Z51 an assembly plant in South Africa? Would the full frame numbers of your above vehicles be HJ45-021112 and HJ47-016821, or are they simply just the numbers stamped on the "VIN" plates pictured with no additional lettering? I'm aware that at some point Toyota began to add the "R" letter to the RHD model numbers, but unsure if that ever got stamped onto a frame. There was a lack of consistency very early in the 1960s with using or not using the "L" for the LHD vehicles.

I don't have access to Venezuelan, Brazilian, or South African frame numbers/frame number charts, or any charts for HJ45 production. I am guessing these frames and the vehicles constructed on them are in addition to the frames listed as coming from the TMC Honsya plant in Japan? If so, then the overall volume of 45/47 bodies I have listed needs to be increased, but unsure of the overall numbers. There is a published frame number HJ47-016821 for February 1982 from the Honsya Toyota Motor Corp plant, and I would imagine that your frame must have come from Japan pre-stamped with that number. If it is your own personal vehicle, I'm curious what exactly is stamped on the RH front frame.

If you have access to any South African frame charts or a website to research, I would greatly appreciate your help and any leads you can provide. I don't speak or read Afrikaans, but numbers are simple enough. Somewhere I have a set of some frame number charts from Russia printed years ago, but again, published data is hard to find.

Thank-you for posting !

MS

Hi Bear,

Happy to help! Yes, Z51 is the South African Toyota plant. I own a number of J4 Cruisers and believe the frames and vehicles came in as CKD kits without loadbins, as such the frame numbers are Japanese stamped and this is what they look like -

As such, the engine and frame were matched by the factory as you can see on this low mileage '78 model FJ45 of mine -

Alas, we have not found good records from the South African plant on numbers, volumes, etc.

 

[Bear]

That's great, @locklaw --thanks for the photos ! Standard unique font used for frame stamps.

Also clears up the question if Complete Knock Down frames were pre-numbered in Japan or stamped later at the satellite assembly plants in other countries--at least in the case of SA. Pre-stamped frames should be included in the overall sequential frame charts that have been previously printed. You mention "kits"--were all components (except perhaps tires) included in each kit (engine, transmission, etc.), and in the case of pickup trucks, no bed? Some countries have demanded local-country content before allowing importation, hence the beds constructed in SA, the fiberglass FJ43 tops in Colombia, use of other engines in Brazil, and the early 4Runner fiberglass tops in the USA, etc..

If you do find the South African plant information, please share--a lot of us would enjoy learning more .

Thanks again for the info !

MS

 

[locklaw]

H

That's great, @locklaw --thanks for the photos ! Standard unique font used for frame stamps.

Also clears up the question if Complete Knock Down frames were pre-numbered in Japan or stamped later at the satellite assembly plants in other countries--at least in the case of SA. Pre-stamped frames should be included in the overall sequential frame charts that have been previously printed. You mention "kits"--were all components (except perhaps tires) included in each kit (engine, transmission, etc.), and in the case of pickup trucks, no bed? Some countries have demanded local-country content before allowing importation, hence the beds constructed in SA, the fiberglass FJ43 tops in Colombia, use of other engines in Brazil, and the early 4Runner fiberglass tops in the USA, etc..

If you do find the South African plant information, please share--a lot of us would enjoy learning more .

Thanks again for the info !

MS

Happy to help Bear! I have access to influential people in Toyota South Africa and will see what I can do.

As you state, the only parts that were not shipped here were tyres and the loadbin. The loadbin was, as I understand it, not ordered since the standard bin is too light duty for local end users and rather, a bin was made locally by an agricultural company situated in the Free State. Even up to recently the Hilux bin and tailgate were reinforced for the Southern African market (we have a very big Toyota plant here).

We sadly only got Cruiser pickups. No 40's or 55's so we get to import them from RHD countries and deal with all the cost and red tape associated therewith. Even now our 70 series specifications differ to the Aussie offering and we even still get the 1Hz diesel brand new off of the floor as an engine option.

 

[Bear]

@locklaw ,

Good information and very interesting. If you do speak with someone who can access 45/47 South African production, could you ask them if they are able to access the same information from the Mother country--about both Japanese home market as well as any other 45/47 production exported to other countries--pre-assembled or to assembly plants--as far back as available(1960s). As I have said, it cannot be really that secret 50 years later, and of little to no value to any competitor. Enthusiasts, collectors, club members, even automotive historians would have an interest in material provided.

As for reinforcements/specialized additions, up-armoring done to the trucks, I do know that Gibraltar has for a long time been a locale where modified vehicles show-up before later reassignment to the UN and NGOs, separate from the work privately contracted-out by various militaries. Likely there wasn't much of that done back in the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s, but would expect at least frame records would have been kept, and probably frames would have come from the standard assembly line. I do know that Land Rover provided reinforced frames to the British military, but used NATO NSN numbering on most components, possibly even for their specialized frames.

Thanks for the info and the help !

MS

 

[cult45]

@cult45 Daniel,

Thank-you for the data and corrections. The 1977 Troopy magazine article may be the one referenced earlier here by @Greek Cruiserhead which has been previously amended on the above list. Also amended is the start year for the fixed top shorty to 1961, but still no starting month known.

Question for you or someone who knows: the early pickup trucks had short beds and were given model designations such as FJ45P for RHD and FJ45LP for LHD. When the longer bed pickup trucks became available they were distinguished-- when gas-engined-- by the addition of a "-B" such as FJ45P-B for RHD and FJ45LP-B for LHD.

The question is how did the factory designate the diesel-engined BJ45, HJ45, and HJ47 pickup truck versions, which were all longbeds? Was it also with a "-B" such as BJ45P-B and BJ45LP-B, HJ45P-B and HJ45LP-B, HJ47P-B and HJ47LP-B, or something different or not at all?

And another question: for the Troopies: hard tops would be with a "V" for example: FJ45V and FJ45LV"? How would the canvas top Troopy be designated: with a "TP" for example FJ45TP and FJ45LTP <---------this can't be correct?

A final question: was there a HJ45 Troopy, and if yes, an ending date for production of it?

A big thank-you to all who have volunteered info. Answers and corrections are welcomed, as well as a critical eye on any of this !

MS

All early RHD 45 long beds were designated FJ45P. My 1970 is as so. Unsure year change but note the designation on the HJ47 plate below vs. my 1970 FJ45 plate.

Troopies were not Vans, although 7x series regained the V designation for some reason. HZJ75RV - RHD Van case in point.

HJ45 troopy end date was 07/1980 as the next month saw the intro of the HJ47 troopy and some design changes like large eye springs up front.

 

[Bear]

Daniel @cult45 ,

Apologies for the lengthy response:

Yes, the model designations are not consistent. I believe the reasoning behind the "-B" suffix added to the model numbers for long-bed pickups, was to differentiate marketing between the earlier original short-bed models (the so-called "A" or initial pickup trucks) and the introduction of the later long-bed versions (the "B" or second style beds). This nomenclature is printed and photographed throughout in the various early factory Parts Catalogs from the 1960s.

Similarly, being a RHD country, Japan's home-country norm standard would be RHD with no need to designate such; while any vehicles meant to be exported to countries using LHD would need some method of identification, hence their choice of an "L". At least in the early years.

The stamping on the "VIN" plates conflicts with the above. Your photo of a RHD long-bed FJ45 stamped "FJ45P" is contrasted with the LHD model long-beds exported into the US through 1967 which are stamped "FJ45L", and conflicts with the earlier short-bed RHD models also designated FJ45P. Not sure why later-on Toyota chose to start adding an R to RHD models when it had been omitted in the early days.

The stamped "VIN" plates do provide more information about a truck and various options than a basic model number such as FJ45LP-B, and of course various registration authorities in many countries went further in designating trucks under their regulation: I have a long-bed pickup truck built in June 1966, which my regulating authority (California state) chose to register on official documents as a 1967 model "FJ45LPB.....", even though the "VIN" plate clearly states the model as "FJ45L" and the frame stamp has no "LPB" letters in it.

The "V" designation seems to be Japan's effort to differentiate a soft-top vehicle from a hard-top one. We have FJ40 models listed in catalogs as "FJ40" when a soft top, and "FJ40V" when having a hard top; some catalogs show "FJ40" vs "FJ40L", for RHD and LHD; and often there are variances on what is stamped onto the "VIN" plates. The Japanese understanding of the word "van" may be different than that used in other countries, much like that of the English and their understanding of the words "station wagon". What we call a "Troopy" or "Troop Carrier" may be a rough translation of a Japanese word for that model--perhaps they refer to it in Japanese as a "bus," where Americans might use the words "Sports Utility Vehicle" / "SUV". All very confusing, but understandable given the international nature of vehicles.

On top of all of this, the letters "LWB" are often used when referring to the long-bed pickup truck, although probably never used by the Japanese. And of course Toyota referred to the pickup trucks at one point as a "Utility," which they mis-typed as "Utilily" on their 1964 catalog cover !

The lists of 45/47s I'm trying to fill-out have been using the factory printed catalog model designations, the year approximations based upon the various Mud registries, and reports from Mud members such as yourself. It can be a crude approximation, but lacking official factory data, the best I can do at present. I very much hope that other members, from many other countries than my own, can continue to contribute to this knowledge base, and some day we may have a better idea of what, when, and how many of these trucks were made and sold going back sixty or more years ago.

Thank-you for your input--much appreciated. I have amended the list herein for the end of HJ45 production and the corresponding start of HJ47 manufacture.

 

[Bear]

Just rechecked the factory production listing and it shows that HJ47 production started during March 1980 with frame number HJ47000001. Perhaps there were a few stragglers in the HJ45 category that overlapped?

Anyone have a frame number chart for the HJ45 production?

 

[flx]

"LWB Longbed Pickup".........HJ45 and HJ45L...............................1979-7/80

HJ45P / HJ45LP started production in 04/1972 !
The dates in the quote would match the production of the HJ45V / HJ45LV: 04/79->07/80

A final question: was there a HJ45 Troopy, and if yes, an ending date for production of it?

So yes but rare as the apparition of the troopy body type (04/79) and the change of engine were close in time.

One as exemple:

 

[Bear]

@flx ,

Thanks for the French perspective. Amended the HJ45P/LP and added the HJ45V/LV.

Question for you: Was only the FJ45 long bed given the "-B" suffix( to avoid confusion with the FJ45P/LP short bed model), and not the BJ or HJ long beds?

Also my references show the HJ47 starting production on 3/80, therefore if the HJ45 continued until 7/80, there would be a 3-month gap where both models would have been produced?

Do you have a frame chart for the HJ45 models with monthly markers and showing actual numbers produced each month, since this was omitted from the international 8/80 - end J4 chart pages?

And a general question: I have only seen the frame chart posted by SpecterOffRoad for 1964-1968 FJ45 models, as Specter did not continue it after 1968 for the FJ45 series. Is there another available reference out there showing J45 production from 1968-7/80? Or a chart for FJ45 from 1960-1963? (Trying to fill out the 45/47 chart as completely as is possible)

 

[flx]

Lots of interesting questions but very few answers I have x)

All screenshots from this post come from my February 79 Master Catalog which covers all Land Cruiser from 03/69 to 02/79.

I have no particular knowledge on the -B suffix for the pickup and when short bed pickups were a thing, Toyota was still long away from coming to Europe so over here the long bed pickups are the only one we know.
But looking at this:

The suffix letters are not clearly explained anywhere, they are just letters that designate a specific version. Pickup had the -B up to 7501, from 7501 they only had suffix letters to designate gearbox type and and market specific version.
But now if you look at the FJ55s in the right... up to 7501 VKC (ambulance doors) FJ55 had a B while the VTG (tailgate) FJ55 had nothing. From 7501 the -B became -C for some reason...
Looking at the 40s table the VKC ones also got the -C (from 7204 when VKC started on 40) while VLS had nothing.

All of that to say that -C replaced -B and clearly it designates the 2 different types of back on a Van or Station Wagon. So I think we can extrapolate that on a pickup it was also used to differentiate the 2 kinds of back, so nothing=short bed, and -B=long bed. And from 7501 they considered the short bed was long gone and forgotten and removed the suffix.... Just a supposition.

For the production number there is a revision table that gives a revision code to every frame number range to know if your vehicle is concerned by a change.

Revision code 875 is the last with chassis numbers, so 02/1979 and we have HJ45-027056, and FJ45-199464.
So I think this give you numbers at this date.

There is no table of date for each revision code but it should be possible to search for each revision code in the master catalog to match them to a date to deduct production per year... But who got time for this? x)

 

[flx]

And a bonus, I think I saw you were wondering about soft-top troopy designation, I found this:

Long wheel base soft-top... This can only be a troopy type (no P and no V) and so it seems the soft-top troopies were available from 06/1976 !!
This is a news!