Honsha plant CKD frames used for VZA and SOFASA manufacture in Colombia were numbered differently than Honsha plant frames manufactured and sent across town to either GIFU or Yoshiwara for final assembly.
*J45/47 Body Style, Frame Dates, and Production Numbers(revised). (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bear
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Honsha plant CKD frames used for VZA and SOFASA manufacture in Colombia were numbered differently than Honsha plant frames manufactured and sent across town to either GIFU or Yoshiwara for final assembly.
Bear
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Bear
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- Thread starter
- #25
Still looking for help finding this info. As with many hobbies/collectors, having an idea how many were produced gives hope to those still looking for one of their own, and in the case of rarities, helps establish value and worth for those who already own one.
Documents internal to Toyota Corp. would certainly have accurate production numbers, and for these models no need for any type of secret archiving 60 years on. Even if contained in a Japanese document, translation shouldn't be impossible. Anyone here collect old Toyota literature?
Thanks !
Documents internal to Toyota Corp. would certainly have accurate production numbers, and for these models no need for any type of secret archiving 60 years on. Even if contained in a Japanese document, translation shouldn't be impossible. Anyone here collect old Toyota literature?
Thanks !
Bear
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- Thread starter
- #26
Okay. To get this started here's what I've compiled thus far. It is in no way 100% accurate, but a base from which to begin. While the individual 45 registries list some of the vehicles known to still be in existence, the following data is instead about original production dates and numbers built. Until someone shares factory-written statistics, it will have to suffice as best available info.
Putting this in writing here may make it easier to amend and correct. Note that dates used here are the reported dates frames were manufactured in Japan--not date imported to a country, date first registered, etc.. Not included is info from satellite assembly plants (Venezuela, etc.) until again someone shares those factories' statistics.
It appears Toyota used four unique series of stamped FJ45 serial numbers at their Japanese plant: FJ45-010000 thru FJ45-421310; FJ45-800001 thru FJ45-800316; FJ45-810001 thru FJ45-810199; and FJ45-850001 thru FJ45-850558; the last three series for export to Europe. That would indicate a total production of all FJ45 variants thru the entire production run of 412,383 +/- units.*
That total of course needs broken down into each variant, which without available data, may be impossible due to mixing frame numbers during production. An interesting set of side statistics would be a breakdown of units exported to individual countries, and the years imported.
Lastly, the following seems to be a rough estimate of production years for each FJ45/BJ45/HJ47 series model. Please comment if you can substantiate corrections or known earlier or later examples:
"Wagon"................................ FJ45V and FJ45LV............................1961-1967 *
"SWB Fixed Top Pickup".......FJ45P and FJ45LP............................1961-5/64 *
"SWB Remov Top Pickup".....FJ45P and FJ45LP............................6/64-1965 *
"LWB Longbed Pickup"........ FJ45P-B and FJ45LP-B....................8/64-6/85 *
"LWB Longbed Pickup".........BJ45P and BJ45LP............................3/80-10/84 **
"LWB Longbed Pickup".........HJ45P and HJ45LP............................4/72-7/80
"LWB Longbed Pickup"..........HJ47 and HJ47L...............................3/80-6/85?
"Troopy"..................................FJ45V and FJ45LV.............................6/77-9/84 *
"Troopy"..................................BJ45V and BJ45LV............................3/80-10/84 **
"Troopy"..................................HJ45V and HJ45LV............................4/79-7/80
"Troopy"..................................HJ47 and HJ47L................................3/80-6/85 ***
*412,383 total combined FJ45 stamped frames produced
**9,488 total combined BJ45 stamped frames produced
***39,593 total combined HJ47 stamped frames produced
---->461,464 grand total 45/47 frame units produced over 24 years from 1961-mid 1985
Thanks for your input !
Last revised: 10/15//2022
Putting this in writing here may make it easier to amend and correct. Note that dates used here are the reported dates frames were manufactured in Japan--not date imported to a country, date first registered, etc.. Not included is info from satellite assembly plants (Venezuela, etc.) until again someone shares those factories' statistics.
It appears Toyota used four unique series of stamped FJ45 serial numbers at their Japanese plant: FJ45-010000 thru FJ45-421310; FJ45-800001 thru FJ45-800316; FJ45-810001 thru FJ45-810199; and FJ45-850001 thru FJ45-850558; the last three series for export to Europe. That would indicate a total production of all FJ45 variants thru the entire production run of 412,383 +/- units.*
That total of course needs broken down into each variant, which without available data, may be impossible due to mixing frame numbers during production. An interesting set of side statistics would be a breakdown of units exported to individual countries, and the years imported.
Lastly, the following seems to be a rough estimate of production years for each FJ45/BJ45/HJ47 series model. Please comment if you can substantiate corrections or known earlier or later examples:
"Wagon"................................ FJ45V and FJ45LV............................1961-1967 *
"SWB Fixed Top Pickup".......FJ45P and FJ45LP............................1961-5/64 *
"SWB Remov Top Pickup".....FJ45P and FJ45LP............................6/64-1965 *
"LWB Longbed Pickup"........ FJ45P-B and FJ45LP-B....................8/64-6/85 *
"LWB Longbed Pickup".........BJ45P and BJ45LP............................3/80-10/84 **
"LWB Longbed Pickup".........HJ45P and HJ45LP............................4/72-7/80
"LWB Longbed Pickup"..........HJ47 and HJ47L...............................3/80-6/85?
"Troopy"..................................FJ45V and FJ45LV.............................6/77-9/84 *
"Troopy"..................................BJ45V and BJ45LV............................3/80-10/84 **
"Troopy"..................................HJ45V and HJ45LV............................4/79-7/80
"Troopy"..................................HJ47 and HJ47L................................3/80-6/85 ***
*412,383 total combined FJ45 stamped frames produced
**9,488 total combined BJ45 stamped frames produced
***39,593 total combined HJ47 stamped frames produced
---->461,464 grand total 45/47 frame units produced over 24 years from 1961-mid 1985
Thanks for your input !
Last revised: 10/15//2022
Last edited:
WarDamnEagle
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1983 Troopy. Saudi Arabia spec. 12/82 Manufacture date. FJ45LV-KC model, VIN FJ45-345386
Currently on a ship. ETA Jacksonville middle of June.
I show the Troopy at 08/80 through 09/84, FWIW.
Currently on a ship. ETA Jacksonville middle of June.
I show the Troopy at 08/80 through 09/84, FWIW.
Bear
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- Thread starter
- #30
Thanks @WarDamnEagle . And Welcome Back Home !
Added your info as well as three lines: BJ45V, BJ45P, and HJ47 with factory-reported data.
Unsure if the BJ45 came as a pickup truck and/or a Troopy and model designation.
Unsure if the HJ47 came as a pickup truck and/or a Troopy and model designation.
Hopefully an owner or an expert will chime-in.
BTW, can still try to reconstruct production dates with reported frame numbers/dates from the various registries, but never know if there were others unreported and now long gone.
Added your info as well as three lines: BJ45V, BJ45P, and HJ47 with factory-reported data.
Unsure if the HJ47 came as a pickup truck and/or a Troopy and model designation.
Hopefully an owner or an expert will chime-in.
BTW, can still try to reconstruct production dates with reported frame numbers/dates from the various registries, but never know if there were others unreported and now long gone.
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Yes, the BJ45s did come both as PUPs and Troopies.
I have seen many BJ45 Troopies in Europe (actually the 3B has been the only available engine in the old continent since 1981).
In respect to the BJ45 PUP, they do exist too (had a few of them, see VIN-plate).
PS. Kept one of them and hope, with the technical assistance of the Mud community, to (frame-off) restore her one day...
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Bear
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- Thread starter
- #32
Thanks, @Greek Cruiserhead .
So, I'll add BJ45P and BJ45LP for the pickups as your above VIN plate shows,
and BJ45V and BJ45LV for the Troopies.
So, I'll add BJ45P and BJ45LP for the pickups as your above VIN plate shows,
and BJ45V and BJ45LV for the Troopies.
Bear
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #33
While the various 45 sub-registries inform some rough national distribution and eventual registration after importation, they do not offer a complete explanation of what was internationally available or breakdown worldwide production numbers of individual models. And there are additional records of models sold and produced for Japanese domestic consumption, not easily accessed. So, since complete and accurate production information isn't available, here are some random observations and thoughts from what IS available:
It appears that the 45-series serial numbers may have started with #10,000 and sometime in the year 1961, which would make the first 45 serial number: 1FJ45-10000.
It appears from the various registries that the fixed-top and removable-top short-bed pickups were not produced at the same time and that the switch-over occurred around May/June 1964.
Perhaps, when the removable-top short-bed pickup was begun, a decision had been made to also offer a long-bed version as well, and that the long bed version began production at that same month in 1964--maybe a serial number will be found to verify this.
There were major changes in the long bed pickup version around 10/67, and perhaps that month was the actual end of production for the 45 wagon version.
--------------------------------
For the 45/47 worldwide production:
In summary, it appears only a 45 wagon was built the first year--1961. A short bed pickup was added for the next three years. That fixed-top pickup was replaced by a short-bed pickup with a removable top AND a long-bed version for only about a year, when the short-bed version went away. Then four years later, in 1967, wagon production ceased, and for the next thirteen years only a long bed pickup was offered. In 1980 Troopies became available and joined the longed pickups for the final five to six years until production ceased.
Anyway, those are my present conclusions, using the same data generally available to most of us. Please reply if you have corrections or updated data you can share. And if you have any break-outs for the actual numbers manufactured of each variation of 45, that would be great to include.
As we all age, so does knowledge of the old production data, and it would be helpful and most appreciated if any of the long-time members who may have knowledge and access, would share it with us enthusiasts to further our understanding of this great vehicle--share it here, post it in a different thread, poke holes in what has been said here. Help us appreciate better what we have.
How say you?
It appears that the 45-series serial numbers may have started with #10,000 and sometime in the year 1961, which would make the first 45 serial number: 1FJ45-10000.
It appears from the various registries that the fixed-top and removable-top short-bed pickups were not produced at the same time and that the switch-over occurred around May/June 1964.
Perhaps, when the removable-top short-bed pickup was begun, a decision had been made to also offer a long-bed version as well, and that the long bed version began production at that same month in 1964--maybe a serial number will be found to verify this.
There were major changes in the long bed pickup version around 10/67, and perhaps that month was the actual end of production for the 45 wagon version.
--------------------------------
For the 45/47 worldwide production:
In summary, it appears only a 45 wagon was built the first year--1961. A short bed pickup was added for the next three years. That fixed-top pickup was replaced by a short-bed pickup with a removable top AND a long-bed version for only about a year, when the short-bed version went away. Then four years later, in 1967, wagon production ceased, and for the next thirteen years only a long bed pickup was offered. In 1980 Troopies became available and joined the longed pickups for the final five to six years until production ceased.
Anyway, those are my present conclusions, using the same data generally available to most of us. Please reply if you have corrections or updated data you can share. And if you have any break-outs for the actual numbers manufactured of each variation of 45, that would be great to include.
As we all age, so does knowledge of the old production data, and it would be helpful and most appreciated if any of the long-time members who may have knowledge and access, would share it with us enthusiasts to further our understanding of this great vehicle--share it here, post it in a different thread, poke holes in what has been said here. Help us appreciate better what we have.
How say you?
Both my early trucks, 2fj4512016 and 2fj4512018
Are type fj45L. 12018 is model year 1962 and titled as a 62, where as 12016 is model 1963 and titled as a 63. Which has been mentioned by everyone the year they were sold and first titled. There is a 9 digit gap in engine numbers between the 2 digit gap of production which I would assume the motors between would have gone to fj40s is my best guess as to the differences. Always something to learn and always interested in the small changes and differences in the vehicles. I have a banderite in transit and will have to learn more on them once it arrives. Its been interesting watching the registry the last 12 15 years idk how long, but been fun watching the trucks come out of the woods and to see what shape they are in as they get posted up.
Are type fj45L. 12018 is model year 1962 and titled as a 62, where as 12016 is model 1963 and titled as a 63. Which has been mentioned by everyone the year they were sold and first titled. There is a 9 digit gap in engine numbers between the 2 digit gap of production which I would assume the motors between would have gone to fj40s is my best guess as to the differences. Always something to learn and always interested in the small changes and differences in the vehicles. I have a banderite in transit and will have to learn more on them once it arrives. Its been interesting watching the registry the last 12 15 years idk how long, but been fun watching the trucks come out of the woods and to see what shape they are in as they get posted up.
Bear
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- Thread starter
- #35
@sofj45 ,
Interesting info on the engine serial numbers, which may point to the assembly line alternately building 40s and various 45s coming down the same line. At some point it would be interesting to merge the various known 40 and 45 registry frame serial numbers as well as the engine numbers to possibly find an assembly pattern if one exists--perhaps a limited run of one model followed by a different model, or maybe individual models were on a made-to-order basis as orders came in. Certainly, with today's volumes of mass-produced vehicles, the largest manufacturers must limit the amount of individualization to not slow down their production rate.
Of course, the early assembly methods would have corrections as the volume of production ramped up over time and efficiencies were found. The "Just In Time" mantra would indicate there were not a lot of parts sitting idly-by, where consecutive numbering would get messed up. Also interesting would be if serial numbers on frames, engines, etc. were stamped right after their manufacture, and that certain batches were sent to the various overseas assembly plants during or after the model run.
Another question that comes to mind would be the difference between date of manufacture and date of final assembly, similar to the dates of importation, sale, and initial registration. If...................all the parts, pieces, and components of a vehicle were found years after their original manufacture, and someone then assembled the entire vehicle, what "year" would be assigned to that vehicle--would it be the date of the frame, the date of the newest component, the date that model last stopped original production, the current date, a date arbitrarily assigned by some registration bureaucrat, or something else? Certain rare and limited volume vehicles--antiques, exotic cars, for example--can achieve huge differences in value due to their "age", being the "last one made," and other uniqueness. There is at least one FJ45 out there that professes to be the "last made," having been assembled at a satellite assembly plant--on a date after the original Japanese production ceased.
I suspect we should consider it an outlier or unique oddity, rather than part of the original model run, and let the owner and any buyer reach agreement as to any increase (or decrease) in value due to a specific "date." <-------my very biased opinion.
Interesting info on the engine serial numbers, which may point to the assembly line alternately building 40s and various 45s coming down the same line. At some point it would be interesting to merge the various known 40 and 45 registry frame serial numbers as well as the engine numbers to possibly find an assembly pattern if one exists--perhaps a limited run of one model followed by a different model, or maybe individual models were on a made-to-order basis as orders came in. Certainly, with today's volumes of mass-produced vehicles, the largest manufacturers must limit the amount of individualization to not slow down their production rate.
Of course, the early assembly methods would have corrections as the volume of production ramped up over time and efficiencies were found. The "Just In Time" mantra would indicate there were not a lot of parts sitting idly-by, where consecutive numbering would get messed up. Also interesting would be if serial numbers on frames, engines, etc. were stamped right after their manufacture, and that certain batches were sent to the various overseas assembly plants during or after the model run.
Another question that comes to mind would be the difference between date of manufacture and date of final assembly, similar to the dates of importation, sale, and initial registration. If...................all the parts, pieces, and components of a vehicle were found years after their original manufacture, and someone then assembled the entire vehicle, what "year" would be assigned to that vehicle--would it be the date of the frame, the date of the newest component, the date that model last stopped original production, the current date, a date arbitrarily assigned by some registration bureaucrat, or something else? Certain rare and limited volume vehicles--antiques, exotic cars, for example--can achieve huge differences in value due to their "age", being the "last one made," and other uniqueness. There is at least one FJ45 out there that professes to be the "last made," having been assembled at a satellite assembly plant--on a date after the original Japanese production ceased.
I suspect we should consider it an outlier or unique oddity, rather than part of the original model run, and let the owner and any buyer reach agreement as to any increase (or decrease) in value due to a specific "date." <-------my very biased opinion.
It seems that a round bezel Troopie (FJ45) was available in Australia as early as 1977 (see: "The Longest Soft Top", Overlander magazine, June 1977, in James Taylor & R M Clarke (ed.) Toyota Land Cruiser 1956-1987, Brooklands Books, Surrey, UK, pp 64-68).
I will get back to you with pics soon.
Bear
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #37
@Greek Cruiserhead ,
I wonder if that could have been a prototype being tested or something created locally? I don't think there is a specific Troopy registry on Mud to see any serial numbers. Was that a Norforce Troopy?
Researching Toyota's early production would be far easier and more accurate if there were available internal corporate production data. Understandable that a company would keep some data secret from possible competitors. I do know that Land Rover kept and keeps archives of early production that can be shared among enthusiasts. Perhaps if someone on Mud has similar Toyota data it would be great to see.
I wonder if that could have been a prototype being tested or something created locally? I don't think there is a specific Troopy registry on Mud to see any serial numbers. Was that a Norforce Troopy?
Researching Toyota's early production would be far easier and more accurate if there were available internal corporate production data. Understandable that a company would keep some data secret from possible competitors. I do know that Land Rover kept and keeps archives of early production that can be shared among enthusiasts. Perhaps if someone on Mud has similar Toyota data it would be great to see.
It doesn't seem to be a prototype, it was imported by Thiess Toyota P/L, which gave a 12 months/20.000 km warranty. The suggested retail price was $7723.67 (NSW-excluding rego and TPI).
According to the above mentioned article:
"At $7724 the FJ45 soft-top is not overpriced. Perhaps soon we shall see it imported with a factory hardtop for more comfort, and maybe even fitted with Toyota's six cylinder Diesel for economy.
When we took the 45 on a recent 4WD club outing, had we been in the business we could have sold a dozen vehicles on the spot"...
Sure a sweet Troopie and...round bezel!
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Bear
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- #40
Thank-you, @Greek Cruiserhead . Would have been nice if they included a photo of the VIN plate in that magazine article.
I wonder if that is among the earliest Troopies, being RHD. Perhaps someone has a Troopy from the Middle East or elsewhere that is older or points to their production starting in 1975 or 1976? Maybe a dated sales brochure from that period showing photos of available models?
I wonder if that is among the earliest Troopies, being RHD. Perhaps someone has a Troopy from the Middle East or elsewhere that is older or points to their production starting in 1975 or 1976? Maybe a dated sales brochure from that period showing photos of available models?
