3B won't start

[Greg_B]

-3b/2h have someone crank and ensure the arm on the edic moves forward to overinjection. If not you have an edic problem. (disconnect arm and wire in centre position to start).

Pop the arm and the fuel lever goes to the run position. No wiring needed.

Positions are:

Forward = all the way to stop
Middle = run position, default with no arm attached
Back = all the way to over inject.

hth's

gb

 

[Diescipel]

EDIC

OH my god I've got good compression, glow, etc. cuz this baby just fired up like I just shut it down.

I put a voltmeter on the busbar etc. I could see it go through the higher voltage for the initial glow, then the lower voltage for the afterglow. With the brand new plugs I figured that confirms a good glow system.

In my listening to relays I realized that I heard nothing from the EDIC, so I confirmed that the arm didn't move. Removed the arm and BAH BOOM the thing fired up better than ever with zero smoke.

Can I tell you how good that sounds?

Anyhow, advice now on tackling the EDIC. I frankly would enjoy going manual, but if there's a simple way to address this then... As far as I can tell (I need to go out and double check) the thing is frozen in the "off" position. I didn't need any over injection to start it so it would be nice to be able to control that manually to reduce the white cloud. FWIW yes I can hear the EDIC relay clicking properly under the glove box, and yes I've had the funky chicken problem.

Thanks to all and esp. Brownbear and Greg for the EDIC diagnosis.

Cheers,
B

 

[Diescipel]

I checked for continuity at the harness near the EDIC--4 wires, is this the one? I couldn't get continuity both with the engine running and off. Methinks the relay that had funky chickened has finally danced its last dance. However, I can still hear it clicking on and off.

I'm thinking manual EDIC and wire the low px shut down circuit to the old seatbelt buzzer that has long since been disconnected...

Cheers,
B

 

[brownbear]

O'kay. So are you guys saying that a 14volt glow plug is correct ? Shouldn't they be 24volt?

Brownbear-for some reason i always though you weren't supossed to pump or push in the throttle on a injection type motor(throttle body or direct)? Don't know why just thought that.

Also, please confirm if this is correct, you can check line voltage at the buss bar that feeds the glow plugs? To check each glow plug don't you disconnect the buss bar and ohms each plug? If there's no continuity then the plug is bad? Diesel tech-101

Sorry Diesipal for the highjack. Though this would be good training for us(me) newbies

I think the owners manual for cold weather says to go to half throttle. Main reason is for more fuel. I have to start my Mercedes like this almost everytime when cold. Just add a bunch of throttle. Then back off immediately when fired up, go to 1000 rpm. No need to pump, there is no accelerator squirt. Just hold on extra fuel while starting. It can't be bad for it, it isn't like a EFI engine.

Checking for voltage at the busbar tells you the timers, relay and wiring is good. Not the glowplugs. This thing will start with 3 or maybe 2 glow plugs working, it'lll just be rough and smoke lots. Once you know you have voltage then you can see why the plugs are not glowing. I would have a hard time thinking all plugs in an engine would be gone out at the same time. So I check that they get voltage first before I pull any out to see if the resistance is good.


Greg B, when I said wire I meant lock wire stuff, not electrical wire. Just to hold it in position while driving.

I forgot if forward is shut off, or aft is overinject. Thanks for the clarifications.

Diesciple, yu could go manual. But if you find the culprit is better to have the electrical system working IMOP.

If you get no movement, its probably not the low oil px switch, as that allows it run first then cuts it.
Try the power wires to the relay box. Check the fuse.


On the motor(edic motor) check for the continuity with your meter(ohms)

For pin(on connector as motor) "M" to the body of the motor should be 3.3 ohms for 24v system.
Move lever forward to be at off pos should have continuity between "d" and "O.I" no reistance.

Move lever to centre(drive) pos, Pin "s" to "O.I" should have continuity.

Move lever to Overinject( all the way in) pin "s" to "d" should have continuity.


These test the motor. As per FSM.

So did you say that your EDIC had the funky chicken for awhile?

 

[Diescipel]

Thanks BB--very thorough.

My FSM is in storage right now so that's why I'm using you guys and search so much (I could go get the FSM but...) Anyhow, after fiddling and looking for continuity and thinking about pulling the EDIC off the block, the damn thing started working as normal. So I guess the funky chicken is still dancing and I'm expecting more problems in the future, but for now it is working like it used to. I may have to pop the hood to shut it down, or the thing may die on me on the freeway, but either way it won't leave me stranded.

Yeah, I'm not so sure about the manual thing. It's easier for my brain to wrap around, but maybe not the best thing for the truck. I'll just keep my eyes out for a used EDIC etc. for a spare.

Maybe I've got corrosion somewhere and sitting for 5 days opened a circuit that just got re-closed by all my fiddling, cycling the glow plugs, starting etc. etc.??? This could be in the EDIC relay as much as the motor itself though.

Thanks,
B

 

[Greg_B]

Greg B, when I said wire I meant lock wire stuff, not electrical wire. Just to hold it in position while driving.

I was talking lock wire too. Not needed. Default position with the arm off is run position, unless I am totally missing what you mean.

Good overview.

If you bypass the EDIC and go manual you loose the low oil pressure shutdown feature. Lots of people have done it though...

hth's

gb

 

[brownbear]

No thats what I meant, if not needed even better. So it springs in the other positions greg?

Not sure about the manual control, but if you were to do it, I would make sure you have some detents to get it close the angles on the injection pump it is supposed to have. I would not want it to be too much injection, it might srew up the fuel scheduling. Add too much fuel and fawk the engine. Worst case.

The manual stipulates the angles the arm should sit at. But I dunno how important that is.

If I did manual I would try to do it like a lawnmower with a throttle, go all one way and it shuts down, all the other way for start, then a mid posistion with a detent for run.
When your starting the overinject only is for when the starter is running. Not sure if you could rig the manual for just "run" and then "off" Use your foot on the skinny pedal for extra fuel.

Experiment with the arm off. Leave it in the run pos and try starting cold. If it starts up fine then all you need is a on/off push pull cable.

For the low oil Px warning I would use a red light in a very obvious location. The buzzer will drive you nuts. As it would be buzzing anytime the engine wasn't running, so no listening to the radio, or waiting for glowplugs. You would be jumping at having the engine running to eliminate the darn noise. Use a light.

 

[brownbear]

Why don't you take the edic relay into aTV repair shop and have them look at it. Might just be a bad diode, or resitor. Something that can be repaired.

Heck there might even be a better place than the tv repair shop. If there is such a thing anymore in our disposible world.

 

[Tapage]

Here are some guys that repaired their EDIC in a electrical mechanical shop .. ( electromechanical . ? )

 

[cruiser_guy]

I've had an EDIC motor rebuilt at a shop in Abbotsford for under $100 about 3 years ago.
I can't remember the name of the shop but it was a guy working out of his garage about 2-3 blocks from McCallum Rd. and the TransCanada.

 

[brownbear]

In aircraft stuff we get everything rebuilt. Check valves, motors, swithes etc... If it can be rebuilt it is.The aircraft industry is the complete opposite of disposible. So my brain always thinks rebuilt/exchange.....

Want a great example of rebuild it... 30 yr old plane 28,500 hours air time, 44,000 flights.... Would have been re-engined 8 times per side, total of 16 engines in life time. Oh and its not even half way on the design life....

 

[Diescipel]

Well, I have to say new glow plugs make a HUGE difference. It's only about 45* F in the mornings here now, but with the new glowies the thing kicks over when I just touch the start, and with the least amount of smoke I've seen from this truck. Over last winter I found I had to double glow to start it--I bet I had lost a plug or two and was down to one or two before the new ones.

Again everything is working fine now but I bet I'll have the funky chicken or other issues soon. How do I go about checking if it's the relay or the EDIC itself? Or maybe I should just pull and go over each one?

B

 

[dblugly]

Sorry for the high jack, just one quick question.
On my 80 bj41 with a 2b motor, do I use the super glow plugs or manual?

 

[Tapage]

Again everything is working fine now but I bet I'll have the funky chicken or other issues soon. How do I go about checking if it's the relay or the EDIC itself? Or maybe I should just pull and go over each one?

B

try with BB directions with edic alone .. I thought is the better method to know if the edic are function fine ..

 

[brownbear]

First go over the motor like I mentioned, should be simple, At least it sounds simple. Disconnect arm, disconnect harness. Use meter as mentioned.


For the relay I would pull it out and bring it to repair shop for a look over. Gotta be a weak relay or diode inside shot.

That is to say your grounds are fine, the low oil PX sw is fine, etc......