3B won't start (1 Viewer)

[Diescipel]

I had been getting lots of white smoke and hard cold starts (in ~50* F) so I searched and read up on past threads. My understanding is that there were 2 possibilities: air getting into fuel, and bad glow plugs. I checked the fuel system for leaks, torqued down all the nuts on the injectors etc. Same problem. Ordered new glow plugs from Cdan and just got them and installed them this afternoon.

Truck has been sitting for 5 days or so while I waited on the plugs. I installed the new plugs and it won't even catch, no ignition whatsoever. It's at least 65* F outside right now, so even if the glow system isn't working I should get something. Cranks and cranks, white smoke out exhaust, but otherwise nothing.

Compression was very good at PPI Dec. 2004. 273k miles with a rebuilt engine.

I'm thinking there must still be an air leak somewhere. Big one. ???? How to check?

Note: it's got ~80% biodiesel in it right now. These symptoms did start as I increased the % of bioD during the summer.

Thanks,
B

 

[cruiser_guy]

Did you open the fuel system or change injectors or fuel filter? If not I doubt there is an air lock. Double check your glow plug connections. I've had problems with that before.

If you still think there is air get a pal to give you a hand and bleed air from the filter first, then the pump and finally the injection pipes. The pal you bring cranks while you open the bleeders till fuel flows.

 

[Diescipel]

Thanks C_G

I did change the fuel filter in the midst of this, but it made no difference one way or another. Otherwise, no, I didn't open the fuel system. I am still getting white smoke as I crank it now....

I did go out and try to bleed from the filter but only got nice clean clear fuel with no bubbles whatsoever. I pumped a pint of fuel.

I don't think it's the glow system but I could be wrong--I mean, it could be the relay not the plugs. I still think a 3B should ignite in 60* F weather. I will read up on diagnosing the eletricals in the glow system to be sure. Actually, I will just install the Wilson switch dammit and be done with it.

To me the key is the dynamic of hard cold starts-white smoke-sat for 5 days. That's why I thought air... maybe it's been seeping in over time. But I have cranked the living sheet out of it and it still won't catch.

Maybe I'll try the buddy method this weekend.

B

 

[Diesel42]

Hmmm! Brendan, i only have one working glow plug since i got mine. Even on my six day journey home from Canada through Montana(COLD) it started every time. Yes, white smoke for a couple of minutes, but once i got on the road it disappeared. So your coastal temps shouldn't make a huge difference. Maybe a little more cranking instead of an instant start, but it should have fired. Trace the beginning origins of problem,ie., "whats changed." Have you always ran Bio-fuel? If so, at hwat ratios? Same supplier of Bio? I've read that one drawback to Bio is jelling in the system at colder climates. Is 60 degrees cold enough? I don't know. Maybe you got a bad batch. If it has jelled or coagulated, it could be causing a improper airfuel mixture(possibly lean) with to much moist coastal air unabling it to fire. I would start with the fuel. I assume your BJ has always ran fine. These rigs runs effotlessly on almost anything but i'm suspect to that fuel. Drain lines, replace filter,refill with pure diesel with injection cleaner,bleed, then try to fire. Confirm all glow plugs are working with ohm meter also.Keep us posted.

 

[Diescipel]

Only other thing I see after searching is the injector pump diaphragm... I think I'll order one just to get it coming from Canada then see.

RE: fuel yes I have been running biodiesel for some time in the truck. I keep it below 50% in winter to prevent the gelling, which shouldn't happpen at 50* but closer to freezing, and then only with 100% bioD. I run the same fuel in my Mercedes with no issues, easy cold starts.

BTW when I was getting the white smoke, the truck ran great after it warmed up. It was just the initial start that was the problem.

Thanks again,
B

 

[Conex]

Put a meter on your glow plug rail just to rule that out first. My B started very rough and smoked before I changed my plugs. It still requires a VERY long preheat burn to keep the startup smoke down.

 

[cruiser_guy]

Put a meter on your glow plug rail just to rule that out first. My B started very rough and smoked before I changed my plugs. It still requires a VERY long preheat burn to keep the startup smoke down.

I find that interesting. In Guatemala I glow my truck and it starts almost instantly everytime. I also had a Toyota diesel pickup with the 2L engine and the shop had the glow plug wiring connected wrong and no matter what, it would not start at 50 - 60 deg temps.

I had a bit of a bear with my BJ60 when I changed the fuel filter and injectors last month. I ended up with air in the injection pump but once I bled that out it was fine.

 

[Conex]

I find that interesting.

Mine will start with very little glow time also, but it doesnt smoke if I preheat for a minute or so. I am pretty sure that I have injector issues and need a valve job. If I had the time and it wasnt a daily driver, I would like to tear the thing down and rebuild it.

 

[cruiser_guy]

What I have found is that the rocker arms tend to wear at the valve stems which makes setting the right valve clearance almost impossible. I've also gotten ahold of a set of injectors from the wreckers and use those as a spare set that I carry with me.
A rebuild done right on a 3B will probably be similar to the cost of a 3B Japanese takeout.
You can swap out a 3B in a day easily if you have an engine hoist.

 

[UpsideDown]

Make sure you have the correct glow plugs. There seems to be lots of confusion at parts stores as to which are the correct units.

In your 24V 1983 BJ42 with Super Glow, you should have 14V plugs if my memory serves correctly...

 

[mac]

Make sure you have the correct glow plugs. There seems to be lots of confusion at parts stores as to which are the correct units.

In your 24V 1983 BJ42 with Super Glow, you should have 14V plugs if my memory serves correctly...

Yes, Yes! If you have plugs for a 12v truck, no starty start.

Hey, how about spraying some ether in the intake? If it's a glow issue- that'll get 'er goin'! JUST KIDDING- do not do that unless you don't care about your 3B. I had to do that one time out in the bush. 1st thing on a cold morning and all of my plugs were shot. The ether got it going but it was downright scary- noisy and smoky!

On a serious note- it does sound like a glow issue. Make sure you are getting the right voltage to the proper set of g-plugs.

 

[UpsideDown]

Oh, and another thing... in case this hasn't been covered 1,000,000 times already... replace all your glow plugs at the same time and if you're not sure which ones are correct - do not trust the guys at the parts store to tell you - ask some of the dieselheads on here first.

 

[Greg_B]

Oh, and another thing... in case this hasn't been covered 1,000,000 times already... replace all your glow plugs at the same time and if you're not sure which ones are correct - do not trust the guys at the parts store to tell you - ask some of the dieselheads on here first.

Or look in the FAQ 1st. Post #32 of this thread will give you plug numbers: https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=42417&page=2

hth's

gb

 

[Tapage]

I never try to start a Cruiser under 0ºC the better experience that have was in the Baru Volcano here in Panamá at 3ºC I need to preheat my 2H 3 times to keep it running. But in all times that I fire up it start .. but shutdown few seconds later ..

My question is ( and just to know a litlle more ) if I have bas preheat system ..

Suyppose I have really nice bats .. and I crank and crank and crank it again and again ( talking about IDI engines ) it will be strart some day .. or never start .. ?

 

[Diescipel]

yes, the righ plugs--got the part nos. from Greg's post in the FAQ, confirmed by pulling the plugs in there. These are 4 new Toyota glow plugs part no. 19850-68060, 14v.

I'll bust out the multimeter today to check voltage. If a relay is gone, then the Wilson switch is going in. BTW the glow light comes on as normal, like it always did, and I can hear a relay clicking on/off in the engine bay.

Inj. pump diaphragm on the way from 4WheelAuto. Nice to have a spare one of those even if it's not the problem.

Thanks again all,
B

 

[niblik]

when my 3b wasnt startin , my first port of call was the glowies.. i pulled them out individually and hooked them up to the battery usin jumper cables. the tip glowed so they were obviously sweet.. found my problem eventually to be a fuel valve thang, buts thats another story.:whoops:

worst case scenario, to be brutal on ya wagon, ya could tow start it? just to get it running..?

my 2c..

 

[brownbear]

Thing if it won't start in this order,

- Put a multimeter on the glowplug bus bar, confirm voltage.

-3b/2h have someone crank and ensure the arm on the edic moves backwards to overinjection. If not you have an edic problem. (disconnect arm and wire in centre position to start).

- If no glow and your stuck, pour boiling water over the top of the engine.

if you have voltage at the glows, your edic arm moves, your only next thing is fuel.
crack the injector b nuts while cranking.

If it has compression and fuel it has to start. Also put your foot to the floor while cranking.

Edited for proper edic posistion. Now all good

 

[Diesel42]

O'kay. So are you guys saying that a 14volt glow plug is correct ? Shouldn't they be 24volt?

Brownbear-for some reason i always though you weren't supossed to pump or push in the throttle on a injection type motor(throttle body or direct)? Don't know why just thought that.

Also, please confirm if this is correct, you can check line voltage at the buss bar that feeds the glow plugs? To check each glow plug don't you disconnect the buss bar and ohms each plug? If there's no continuity then the plug is bad? Diesel tech-101

Sorry Diesipal for the highjack. Though this would be good training for us(me) newbies

 

[cruiser_guy]

O'kay. So are you guys saying that a 14volt glow plug is correct ? Shouldn't they be 24volt?

Brownbear-for some reason i always though you weren't supossed to pump or push in the throttle on a injection type motor(throttle body or direct)? Don't know why just thought that.

Also, please confirm if this is correct, you can check line voltage at the buss bar that feeds the glow plugs? To check each glow plug don't you disconnect the buss bar and ohms each plug? If there's no continuity then the plug is bad? Diesel tech-101

Sorry Diesipal for the highjack. Though this would be good training for us(me) newbies

The "SuperGlow" system use a plug with a lower voltage rating. 6v for the 12v trucks and 14v for the 24v trucks.

To check each plug you must disconnect the buss bar and ohm them out but to check if voltage is coming then check at the buss bar.

Holding the throttle down on the diesel simply opens the butterfly valve for maximum air. You CAN'T flood a diesel!

 

[Greg_B]

Holding the throttle down on the diesel simply opens the butterfly valve for maximum air. You CAN'T flood a diesel!

Even though this is a 3B thread, for clarification's sake to others reading you mean on the 3B only, correct? No butterfly valve on any of the other diesels; direct from the foot to the pump on those.

----

When my glow system pooched on my BJ60 (12V superglow) on cold mornings I simply used a heavy guage wire (10 or 8) and went from the battery to the busbar just before the resistor for 10 seconds or so. Maybe bypass the glow system with this wire jumper and see if you can get it to fire. Then I put in the Wilson switch and all was well.

If you still can't start it I would drain the fuel tank, put in regular diesel, prime and purge till you are getting the new diesel out the bleed screw at the filter, and try and start.

Don't think it's valveset, but maybe get the cold specs and set the valves to ensure they are not way out of wack.

Check your air intake to make sure some critter was not building a nest and it got sucked into the air intake pipe. Your air filter is good?

If you have done all this, and it still won't start...find a compression tester and make sure nothing has changed.

hth's

gb