3B injector pump troubleshooting? (1 Viewer)

[robmobile73]

I have a 89' 3B with a radial injector pump(not inline). BJ73's been sitting a couple weeks waiting on parts to come in (new wheel hub and bearings). I cranked it up a few days ago to let it idle awhile and charge the batteries etc. After about 10min of idling it dies. I cranked it back up, but had to give it quite a bit of peddle to get it going. It soon sputtered out and died, like it was starving for fuel................I assumed the fuel filter was clogged.

About 2 months back the factory fuel filter gave up on me. (slow starting and fuel starvation). I installed in small inline filter from the parts store while waiting to get a good large fuel filter put in........When it died and wouldn't keep running after restarting I assumed that the smaller inline filter was clogged.

Today I installed a larger goldenrod fuel filter head and unit I had on hand with a primer bulb. Got the filter unit filled and properly primed and tried to start. It won't start. I used starting fluid and it would fire up and run until the starting fluid burned off and then it dies.........I loosened the lines at the injector to bleed out the air and fire it up with the starting fluid. I can see a little diesel weeping out around the loose line, but not spraying out like you would normally see. I tighten the lines back up and restart it with starting fluid. I cannot get it to run on it's own.

I get help from someone to turn the key while I stand by with the spray can to spray in the intake. I keep it running for 15-20 seconds on the starting fluid but it will not run/pump/inject diesel on it's own.

I check and do have 24v at the fuel cutoff solonoid when the key is on. I ensure my lines are tight with no air leaks.

I do have a little fuel weaping/leaking out of the IP around the shaft going into the pump.(the shaft that holds the plate that the throttle cable connects to). The metal line attached to the pump with banjo bolt is tight. I have never taken this off.

Is there some internal screen filter on the banjo bolt?
Does anyone have any Idea why it's not pumping fuel?
Anyone ever heard of a fuel cuttoff solonoid to stop/get jammed/not work properly?
Doe IP's just stop pumping like this when they fail?

Any help or ideas on how to trouble shoot this is appreciated.
Thankyou in advance

 

[vanisle3b42]

Do you have adequate supply to the injection pump with the engine cranking? Sounds like a bad lift pump to me.

 

[robmobile73]

Do you have adequate supply to the injection pump with the engine cranking? Sounds like a bad lift pump to me.

3B does not have a lift pump. The IP does all the pumping/sucking of fuel from the tank on a BJ73. I'm kind of at a loss on this one.

 

[vanisle3b42]

3B does not have a lift pump. The IP does all the pumping/sucking of fuel from the tank on a BJ73. I'm kind of at a loss on this one.

Oh yeah, I see that now. It definitely has a low pressure pump, just integral to the high pressure.

Bypass your current fuel supply, fully loosen injector lines and see if you get any squirting.

If no squirting-

Have someone crank the engine while you hold your thumb over the inlet fuel line, feel for suction.

If no suction-

remove pump.

we know for sure that our fuel control solenoid is working? We have juice there with the key on? If you loosen the power wire and touch it to the stud do you hear a faint click?

 

[roalco]

I believe there is a filter element (p/n 22602-56350 ?) on the inlet to the fuel pump, it should be right under your fuel cut off solenoid (remove solenoid to get it out).
If you’ve been going through filters that rapidly, you really need to clean your tank out!

 

[OGBeno]

Rebuild that thing. It’s a 30 year old rotary pump. It surely needs a rebuild.

Stop wasting time. Any Bosch diesel place can rebuild it for $1000-1200 or so. Be done for another 30 years. It’s basically a Bosch pump with NipponDenso injection control.

 

[Gun Runner 5]

Do your due diligence when choosing a diesel shop to rebuild your injection pump if you chose to go in that direction. Contrary to popular belief not all diesel shops are created the same and some actually specialize in Toyota diesel pumps.

 

[Gun Runner 5]

There is literally no difference between Bosch VE and NipponDenso IPs, Charles.

Injection controls are the only difference. And voltages for IP controls, especially on rotary pumps.

Never said there was a difference. Simply pointed out that there are shops that seem to know the nuances of Toyota diesel pumps while others may not.

 

[Gun Runner 5]

@Onur .... In an effort to not further hijack this gentleman’s thread and waste time in an unnecessary pissing contest, would you like my email address?

 

[robmobile73]

We're not there yet. Troubleshooting on hold for today due to other commitments. Truck has 265,000 km I wouldn't expect the IP to go that quick.

Check fuel solenoid function.

Check for / inspect internal filter.

Remove hard line from pump by banjo bolt and ensure fuel is going all the way to the pump. I have fuel to the filter and coming out of the filter the last 18 in of rubber line and 4 in of hard line into the pump I have not checked for blockage.

That's the troubleshooting I have to do as of now.

I hope my little bit of troubleshooting can find the problem and fix it. otherwise I'm going to regret all the work I've done on this 3B...... Thank you all for your suggestions I'll post if I can fix it.

 

[robmobile73]

I checked for fuel going all the way through the line to the pump and it is good.

I then checked the fuel cut off solenoid: I disconnect the hot wire from the ignition to the cutoff solenoid. Then I use a small piece of jumper wire from the positive 24 volt terminal on the second battery and touch it to the stud on the fuel cut off solenoid. I cannot hear any click at all not even a faint one. I assume this means my fuel cut off solenoid is bad.

I would like to take it off and inspect it and check the screen filter that is supposedly underneath. Is there a trick to getting this thing out? I don't think I can get a wrench on it. Crowfoot socket?.. I cannot slip a socket over the top of it because the top of the pump is in the way. If I take the top of the pump off I'm fairly sure I can get a socket over the solonoid and take it out. I'm a little afraid to take the top off the pump, afraid something may fly apart on the inside when I remove the top?

 

[robmobile73]

I checked for fuel going all the way through the line to the pump and it is good.

I then checked the fuel cut off solenoid: I disconnect the hot wire from the ignition to the cutoff solenoid. Then I use a small piece of jumper wire from the positive 24 volt terminal on the second battery and touch it to the stud on the fuel cut off solenoid. I cannot hear any click at all not even a faint one. I assume this means my fuel cut off solenoid is bad.

I would like to take it off and inspect it and check the screen filter that is supposedly underneath. Is there a trick to getting this thing out? I don't think I can get a wrench on it. Crowfoot socket?.. I cannot slip a socket over the top of it because the top of the pump is in the way. If I take the top of the pump off I'm fairly sure I can get a socket over the solonoid and take it out. I'm a little afraid to take the top off the pump, afraid something may fly apart on the inside when I remove the top?

Come to think of it I have had some lengthy starts and some slightly slow stops recently as if the solenoid was not moving quick enough or sticking. Did not think that that might be a problem until now.

 

[robmobile73]

I decided not to wait and started to remove the top off the pump so I could get a socket on the cutoff solonoid. After loosening the four Allen bolts starting to lift the cover off I can feel spring tension on the cover so I stopped, and pushed it back down and put a couple thread turns on the bolt to hold it..... I'm going to wait for one of you guys to tell me if there's something with springs it's going to fly apart when I take this cover off.

The ve pump on my Cummins 4bt I'm taking the top cover off and switch the governor spring, but I had pictures to look at to make sure I could put it back right.

 

[roscoFJ73]

I haven't seen or heard a fuel cut solenoid failing. I have seen them get clogged up and I've seen the wiring come loosebut they still kind of worked. They are too simple to fail
The solenoid must come out somehow.

 

[roscoFJ73]

I would buy a crows foot spanner or what ever you need to get the solenoid off

 

[roscoFJ73]

I cant see anything that would cause it to fly off. The only spring is on the fuel lever and thats on the outside.

 

[robmobile73]

I cant see anything that would cause it to fly off. The only spring is on the fuel lever and thats on the outside.
View attachment 2491773

Yeah the fuel level where it stops against the fuel screw that was the spring pressure I felt. I'll get that solenoid out and test it I'm hoping it's clogged up with debris maybe. I just can't feel or hear any clicking when I jump 24v to it. When I loosen the injector lines I get a very small amount of weeping fuel but not the squirting out around the lines you would normally get. I have had some slightly slow shut offs and startups recently. Not instantaneous shutoffs like normal maybe one half to 1 second delay.

 

[OGBeno]

It should be a noticeable click when you apply voltage to the fuel cutoff solenoid.

 

[roscoFJ73]

I was just going to say the manual describes it as an "audible click" Its easy to hear without the engine running

 

[robmobile73]

My ears are bad but not that bad. It's either gummed up or the spring is bad or coil is shot. I hope it's just gummed up. Searching it as a Toyota part it's over 90 bucks for that little thing. I haven't tried searching it as a solenoid switch for a ND ? Injection pump. I wouldn't mind an old t-handle Pull to kill the engine cable like some of your older diesels had, but that's some different parts on the pump like a spring cushioned idle stop, or idle held by the cable with the spring in the cable linkage....... I got a different wrench from the parts store little shorter they didn't have a crow's foot socket in 24 mm. Will try the shorter wrench and removing the injector lines at the bottom to try to get some room and get it out tomorrow.