3B injection pump issues (1 Viewer)

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Rig has been running great, now there seems to be an issue with the injection pump. Searches turned up nothing but if you know of a link that may help I would be grateful

1982 3B, edic has been removed, replaced with a manual glow plug control and a shutdown cable. Cable sits right where the edic control rod was in the run position. Removing the cable end doesn't change whats happening with the engine.

1. Started hearing loud ticking at all speeds. Sounds like a valve tick but adjusted the valves and no change.

2. Constant pulsation in #1 and #2 fuel lines when you touch them while running. Can also be felt in the soft line off the stock fuel filter that feeds the injection pump. Lines have been bled and I am not finding additional air.

Injectors were pulled and pop tested and they were all good around 1700psi with a good pattern. Switching them around made no change in the pulsation of #1 and #2 fuel lines.

3. What sounds like gears meshing (sort of like a whirring sound?)can now be heard while driving down the road. Not coming from the gear boxes! Gets louder and faster when you step on the pedal with the gearbox in nuetral. Never did this before. Definately coming from the left side of the engine.

4. Rig idles and accelerates as always. No change in fuel consumption. No black, blue or white smoke at any time with the exception of high rpm on a hill in 3rd, a bit of black but I would expect that.

5. Diaphram is OK. Pull the line and the idle takes off. Also holds vacuum with my hand pump.

6. Fuel filters have been changed. No change to symptoms.

7. Air has been bled from filter screw, injection pump and injectors several times. No additional air found with follow up bleeding.

8. Rubber section of Fuel return hose has been changed and tightened.

9. And I have never messed with the timing of the pump. Nor have I moved the fuel control screw.

The only thing that seems to eliminate all the new sounds, ticking and the gears meshing sound, is while down shifting. Letting the rig coast down hill with the rig in gear all the sounds go away as the rig slows down. Step on the clutch and the sounds come right back.

Any ideas? Suggestions? What am I missing? Thanks

Tony
 
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Just bumping this up-

Based on what you have said.......



I have no idea. But just out of curiosity did you discover the pulsing lines when searching for the cause of the ticking sound? I'm not totally convinced by what you have written that the injection pump is faulty in any way. Would not air in the lines cause the engine to run roughly? And yet you have stated that it runs just as it had before.

THe "gears meshing" sound would lead me- a total layman- to wonder if there was not an issue related to the timing gears- don't they also run the pump? That might also be related to the fact that the sound goes away under decel.

I have no idea but just wanted to bump this to the top- someone with more experience must have some input...


Pete
 
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This is interesting, I am experiencing many of the same symptoms, but mine is an Isuzu 4BD2 swapped into my 60.
1) I had my injectors overhauled
2) pulsing lines
3) rpm related tick but mine is at idle and does not happen when cold
4) No gear noise
5) checked filters, etc

I'm pulling my pump to get checked out this week, who knows.

Doug
 
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This also has some of the diesel mechs at work puzzled (I work in a diesel boatyard but not as a mech)

About the pulsations, they are also present in the soft hose that feeds the pump from the stock filter but not in the hose from the lift pump to the filter. The hard lines to #1 and #2 have always had a bit of pulsation since I have had it. One of the mechs said the pulsations are common in Yanmars. So this part of the problem wasn't my main concern. Also leaving a finger on the injection line you can feel a momentary pause in the pulsations when you let off the throttle.

What seems to be gear meshing to me did get quieter when I did what the mechs at work frequently do on boat engines. I pretty much filled my Racor with Stanadyne and let the rig idle for 20 minutes. This has noticably reduced the meshing/gear sound. It seems there is not enough lubricity in todays low sulphur diesel fuel. The remainder of the Stanadyne double dosed the fuel in the tank.

Part of the diagnosis problem is that all brands of diesels tend to make there own sounds, with no two alike. I have worked around Detroits, Yanmars, Hino's, Cummins, Volvo's, Westerbekes, Kubota, Luggers, Perkins, Cats, John Deere's, Ford Lehmans and who knows how many others and they all sound different. Some of them sound like they are going to come apart at idle when they are cold.

One of the longtime mechs who I have a lot of respect for said I could spend a bunch of money chasing the problem and may not find it. He suspects the pump but since it runs fine even with the noise I may need to live with it. At this point I don't want to spend several hundred dollars to get the pump tested. But it may come to that. He also said that if a customer came in with the same problem he would suggest they live with it as everything has been done short of pulling the pump to isolate the problem.

Could the ticking be related to the timing gear, yes. But using a stethyscope on the block always sends me toward the injection pump. I need to learn how to set the timing, maybe that is effecting things as well. Never has been adjusted since I have owned it.

Doug Let us know what you find with your pump, maybe it will help with mine. Does changing the timing change your ticking at idle?

Tony
 
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Sorry, I have nothing worthwhile to add. I just hope you get it all figured out. My plan is to bring mine up to you whenever I run into any problems. So, the more you learn now, the better you'll be at diagnosing my 3B when the time comes! :D


:cheers:
 
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Kyle your terrible... Hows the diesel rebuild going?

The one thing I can add to the update, the Stanadyne definately helped.

Did some looking around and decided to tie up some loose wires and the newly installed stop cable. That helped some of the ticking but not all. I think the stop cable was tapping the body slightly.

Tony
 
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Kyle your terrible... Hows the diesel rebuild going?

Tony

I know. What can I say? :D

The rebuild is going well. You can check out my build on the Cascade Cruiser website if you want - BJ42 build - and pictures for Esh. We (a few CC members) are actually leaving for a 4-5 day back country camping trip in 2 days going from Medford to Bend all on dirt roads, and I'm going to take the diesel. I've been frantically tying up loose ends to get it ready. I have about 100 miles on it so far and no off road. :rolleyes: We'll see how it goes! Nothing like adventure!

Good luck with your problems! One quick question, though. Do you think a using a fuel additive regularly would help? I've seen several threads about on this, just wondering what your perspective is.

:cheers:
 
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After this adventure I am now a firm believer in Stanadyne. Somewhere I saw that you can also use 2 stroke oil but I don't know the ratio. These things were built when diesel was formulated quite differently, primarily it had a lot more what the mechanics call lubricity (mostly from the sulphur that they have taken out of diesel in the US). From now on I will be using something to put it back, probably Stanadyne. As for progress the pump seems to be almost back to normal, still a little ticking but nothing ridiculous that I can't live with.

I take it your going to run part of the Oregon Backcountry Discovery Route? I bought the maps and want to run it next summer, border to border.

You will love how little fuel your going to burn compared to your gasser....

Tony
 
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Interesting turn of events with my injection pump/noise issue's. Had to make a hard run down the freeway for about an hour to pick up one of the kids. Took the mellow way home and lo and behold the noises pretty much stopped. Some of the ticking is still there but as a whole the level of noise has come down. The sound that seemed like gears meshing is gone too.

Can't say for sure if it was the Stanadyne, the fuel I just added, the 2700 rpm for almost an hour or possibly oil in the speedo cable that got hot enough to thin out and not bind the cable (turns out this was contributing to some of the noise, might have been what sounded like gears meshing), Also some of the noise/vibration was transmitted through the stop cable (which is new since I removed the Edic set up recently)

Also found the old thread about pulling the drain in the injector housing and got about a tablespoon of oil out. Thanks Lostmarbles for that thread.

Still going to change the diaphragm as who knows how old it is.

Interesting the things I keep learning.

Tony
 
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I take it your going to run part of the Oregon Backcountry Discovery Route? I bought the maps and want to run it next summer, border to border.

You will love how little fuel your going to burn compared to your gasser....

Tony

Yep, just got done with Route 3 today - roughly Medford to Bend. I'd highly recommend doing it if you can. The scenery was beautiful!

Can't say for sure if it was the Stanadyne, the fuel I just added, the 2700 rpm for almost an hour
Tony

2700 RPM for an hour is nothing! I probably shouldn't have, but I kept up with the group going down I-5 doing 65 MPH for about 4 hours. With a 4 speed and 31" tires that equates to about 3100ish RPMs with a few quick blips up to 3300 RPMs. :rolleyes: It did just fine. I made it home with over 900 miles, and about 300 of it was on dirt roads. I was very surprised how smooth it ran at those speeds.

I hope your issue is all fixed. I'm done hijacking your thread now. :D

:cheers:
 

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