2024 GX/Prado Release and Discussion (7 Viewers)

[AnyMal]

One of my neighbors, a retired judge, seems overly impressed that I have a Lexus. To him it's clearly a status symbol, despite my protestations that it's simply a rebadged Land Cruiser. So yeah, I'm not wild about that public perception. OTOH, I prefer all the small differences distinguishing a LX 450 from the LC 80, so no complaints there. On newer models, it seems like there's much more luxury associated with the Lexus variation. Besides the price, the gaudy grille alone would prevent me from owning the current offering.

BTW, Toyota will have a new CEO in April when Mr. Toyoda steps down. This could shake things up a bit at the company.

There was a point in time when Lexus really was Toyota+ in design. That era is unfortunately looooong gone. In terms of LX it stopped at the 470. It had updated lights and interior vs the LC. Thats it.
That gap is now consistently growing. I really miss that era. Afterall Lexus is the old man i give up brand. And that’s exactly where I like it lol. Give me an LS 430 any day of the week. Lexus used to know they are not Merc / BMW. Now they kind of look desperate as a brand since everyone knows its a Toyota underneath.

I hope this young new CEO guy isnt trying to push the brand ever upmarket. Let people think you paid rebranded Toyota prices. Thats where the brands true core audience used to be. They are desperate to market L to younger crowd now, but old crowd has all the money…

 

[desmocruiser]

I like this thread because it almost comes to a full circle!

The reason that Toyota only brought the 300 as a Lexus IS simple, it sales better in the US than the LC.

Prior to 2020 and clever marketing, a media firestorm, a pandemic that presented the realization that it was the penultimate Land Cruiser, the 200 series Land Cruiser was NOT a good selling vehicle In the US.

It’s price was at a level that there was far more bang for the buck in that range for the average American that is spending a ~$100k to carry kids to school/sports, run errands, and take on 3 vacations a year and the Lexus brand aligns much better with those competitors.

 

[nautiquelover]

Let people think you paid rebranded Toyota prices. Thats where the brands true core audience used to be. They are desperate to market L to younger crowd now, but old crowd has all the money…

I completely agree with this statement. Even growing up, Lexus was always seen as another Toyota - just a bit nicer. I think Lexus needs to play into that more. The large variations between the Toyota and Lexus models will probably end up hurting them in the end. We need to start seeing Lexus as an extension of the Toyota brand in design terms, not this new edgy brand that wants to take on a market that it shouldn't be in. I think they need to get back to their roots of just being a higher end Toyota from a design standpoint and that's the real winner in my opinion.

 

[AnyMal]

I like this thread because it almost comes to a full circle!

The reason that Toyota only brought the 300 as a Lexus IS simple, it sales better in the US than the LC.

Prior to 2020 and clever marketing, a media firestorm, a pandemic that presented the realization that it was the penultimate Land Cruiser, the 200 series Land Cruiser was NOT a good selling vehicle In the US.

It’s price was at a level that there was far more bang for the buck in that range for the average American that is spending a ~$100k to carry kids to school/sports, run errands, and take on 3 vacations a year and the Lexus brand aligns much better with those competitors.

While all that is def true, there are a couple points to add.

1) the people in the LX probably have no idea its a land cruiser. In fact, all the LC people are attached at the hip with the badge and brand. All 200 of them lol.

2) I suspect a large part of the lx success comes down to being over 6,000 lbs. for business use full write off, while the LC was just under. That “perk” also comes at roughly half the price of a G wagon.

I don’t think you can find a single piece of LX marketing material that directly mentions “Land Cruiser”. In Toyotas/ Lexus’ ignorance, they probably think that a reference to the cheaper badge would be a negative…
Also with the single top level LC trim pushing the price so close, it kind of does stop making sense to the actual few that are cross shopping them. And i concur with those ppl, the LX is way better .

Again, i think Land Cruiser should just be spun off. And then you can butcher the Lexus variant as much as you want really while being able to sell actual utilitarian 300s and prados, that dont need to scratch a false luxury itch that the Lexus’ can handle just fine. And get those poor people spending $90k out of the s***ty Toyota dealerships.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

If they offered an offroad variant of the LX without the goofy huge front grill, would you care if it was still under the Lexus brand? For me, I don't really care if they call it a Toyota or Lexus as long as the features match my needs.

For me, the goofy Lexus grill aside, I don't care to pay for the $20K+ Lexus name tax. The improved Lexus sound systems, leather, wood, etc. are just not important enough to me to spend the extra dollars, the Toyota brand is plenty for my needs.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

I like this thread because it almost comes to a full circle!

The reason that Toyota only brought the 300 as a Lexus IS simple, it sales better in the US than the LC.

Prior to 2020 and clever marketing, a media firestorm, a pandemic that presented the realization that it was the penultimate Land Cruiser, the 200 series Land Cruiser was NOT a good selling vehicle In the US.

It’s price was at a level that there was far more bang for the buck in that range for the average American that is spending a ~$100k to carry kids to school/sports, run errands, and take on 3 vacations a year and the Lexus brand aligns much better with those competitors.

Agreed, lots of great info in this thread but maybe it's time for a new one, say with the title of...

2024 Land Cruiser Speculation Thread

 

[greynolds]

The reason that Toyota only brought the 300 as a Lexus IS simple, it sales better in the US than the LC.

A lot of the sells better aspect of the LX vs Land Cruiser was self imposed. If they only brought 2000 Land Cruisers, but brought 6000 LX's and sell all of both, then it's sort of obvious which one they're selling more of... When I previously purchased my 2006 LX-470, I had initially wanted to buy a Land Cruiser, so I called around and couldn't find a single dealer who had one available. So I ended up with the LX-470 which was only slightly more expensive, had nicer leather, a better audio system, and (most importantly to me) a better warranty.

But there's also the trim levels considerations. The version of the LC200 we got here was priced quite a bit higher than anything else a Toyota dealer has on the lot. A lower spec may have resulted in selling more, but might have interfered with how many of other models they sold. But I'm sure they had smart people figure out how to make the most $$$, which is ultimately their goal.

For me, the goofy Lexus grill aside, I don't care to pay for the $20K+ Lexus name tax. The improved Lexus sound systems, leather, wood, etc. are just not important enough to me to spend the extra dollars, the Toyota brand is plenty for my needs.

Again, an offroad trim level without the goofy bumper, a slightly lower spec sound system, etc. that makes it very comparable to what the Land Cruiser would have been ought to be possible. The point I was trying to make is that *I* don't really care that much if it says Lexus or Toyota on the badge. I care that the quality is high, the spec works for me, and the price works for me. If someone else thinks I'm elitist, ostentatious, or something because I happen to own a Lexus, that's their problem, not mine. When I owned the G-wagons, I really didn't care what other people thought, I just really enjoyed what I had.

 

[AnyMal]

A lot of the sells better aspect of the LX vs Land Cruiser was self imposed. If they only brought 2000 Land Cruisers, but brought 6000 LX's and sell all of both, then it's sort of obvious which one they're selling more of... When I previously purchased my 2006 LX-470, I had initially wanted to buy a Land Cruiser, so I called around and couldn't find a single dealer who had one available. So I ended up with the LX-470 which was only slightly more expensive, had nicer leather, a better audio system, and (most importantly to me) a better warranty.

But there's also the trim levels considerations. The version of the LC200 we got here was priced quite a bit higher than anything else a Toyota dealer has on the lot. A lower spec may have resulted in selling more, but might have interfered with how many of other models they sold. But I'm sure they had smart people figure out how to make the most $$$, which is ultimately their goal.


Again, an offroad trim level without the goofy bumper, a slightly lower spec sound system, etc. that makes it very comparable to what the Land Cruiser would have been ought to be possible. The point I was trying to make is that *I* don't really care that much if it says Lexus or Toyota on the badge. I care that the quality is high, the spec works for me, and the price works for me. If someone else thinks I'm elitist, ostentatious, or something because I happen to own a Lexus, that's their problem, not mine. When I owned the G-wagons, I really didn't care what other people thought, I just really enjoyed what I had.

I agree with everything except for smart people at Toyota. LOL
If they are so smart, they could easily have added the Japanese base variant of the 600 to the existing 5 million versions they decided to pad the portfolio with here in US. and actually continued to sell to their LC base without totally alienating them.
They are just dumb.
I used to think otherwise before I, and various family members worked for the biggest corporations on earth. They are all dumb and chaos behind the scenes.

 

[desmocruiser]

It is the debate I have always enjoyed regarding the Land Cruiser price, there is tremendous expense/cost to build a vehicle of that quality!

It is also for the same reason I think 70 series in the US would not be successful.

Generally speaking, there are not enough Americans who value higher quality over features and brand meaning to sustain reasonable sales.

 

[greynolds]

It is the debate I have always enjoyed regarding the Land Cruiser price, there is tremendous expense/cost to build a vehicle of that quality!

While that's true, it's also true that other markets get versions of the Land Cruiser that cost a LOT less than the ~$90K they were charging for LC200's here. The trick is figuring out how to sell those models that are missing a lot of features people want (why doesn't this thing have CarPlay?????) AND not cannibalize on sales of other models (that may be more profitable).

 

[Jetboy]

One major difference between the brands is Lexus are most often leased. Toyota's are most often purchased. Some luxury brands like Mercedes and Lexus have a very high percentage of leases. Others like Ferrari and Tesla have very few leases and almost all purchases. Incidentally you also see most cars being leased in New England, California, and Florida. The rest of the nation tends to buy cars. And renting allows Lexus to go with higher prices in many cases. Lexus leases 63%, finances 7%, and cash buyers are 30%. Similarly Merceds is 67% lease, 13% finance, 21% cash. And then over at Toyota it's only 14% lease. I can't easily find the finance vs cash for Toyota brand. I suspect that's a big part of why Lexus is able to lease a lot more LX vs typically selling them at Toyota dealers.

The oddity with the LX is that almost no one who leases a vehicle will ever modify it or take it off-road. So, that leaves the LX in a bit of no-man's land at least as far as the first lease goes until it's sold to the second owner (is that the second owner? I'm not sure what the naming convention is for the first owner after a lease). Anyway - the leased LX is the spork of vehicles. It's not very good off-road when you consider the constraint of a lease. With less than 8 inches of ground clearance, it's not going anywhere a Rav4 wouldn't. And it's highly compromised on-road for a mini-limo due to the off-road platform. The 4Runner balances the same duality in a better way. It's very capable off-road even in the base SR5 form and still has pretty good highway manners given it's off-road capability. The 4Runner is more like the multi-tool to the LX's spork. And the Land Cruiser used to fit that same balance only better. It was both better on road and off-road. At least until they removed the value proposition first and now the off-road capability. The LC300 or the 4Runner hasn't ever been the best vehicle on road or necessarily the most extreme off road, but they do both well enough to serve the dual roll. And I think there's a lot more market for the multi-tool.

It's also a bit of an odd fit to lease an LX because it's the type of vehicle people would typically buy to keep for the long run. Yet in this case Toyota has assigned that vehicle to the brand where it's far less likely to be bought and kept.

That's not to say the LX couldn't fit both sides as well, but you'll need to chop about 6 inches of body cladding off all around and put a lift/armor/winch on it. The bones are there for sure. It's just too expensive for most people to even buy outright, let alone start chopping it up right away. For me the badge is irrelevant either way. If it were $50-60k - you'd see plenty of them with plastics cut up, the rear seats thrown in the bin, and ready for trail duty.

Also just for fun. Spy shot of the new LC. Haha.

 

[Docyota]

Whelp, have a paid for LX600, love it to death. The base model is definitely the money on this model.

Can't wait for the aftermarket to catch up to our interests. This vehicle is awesome.

 

[desmocruiser]

While that's true, it's also true that other markets get versions of the Land Cruiser that cost a LOT less than the ~$90K they were charging for LC200's here. The trick is figuring out how to sell those models that are missing a lot of features people want (why doesn't this thing have CarPlay?????) AND not cannibalize on sales of other models (that may be more profitable).

Interesting that there is such a broad range in LC pricing or maybe more accurately, why are there ~$60k models available in the Mid East and ~$100k most everywhere else?

The CarPlay is a complicated issue. It is challenging with Apple’s desire to access other vehicle software and the cost to retrofit older vehicles is tremendous. Toyota negotiated for several years and eventually invested significantly when they retrofitted the Tacoma and 4Runner and most other models a few years ago. They may have been the last manufacturer to offer CarPlay.

 

[UZJ100LC]

Whelp, have a paid for LX600, love it to death. The base model is definitely the money on this model.

Can't wait for the aftermarket to catch up to our interests. This vehicle is awesome.

with such limited production and units sold, and then news of a new LX (700h?) and a new land cruiser. I don't think it will ever be profitable for aftermarket to design and machine parts for this truck. But what do i know.

 

[chrisratz]

Deleted

 

[chrisratz]

Whelp, have a paid for LX600, love it to death. The base model is definitely the money on this model.

Can't wait for the aftermarket to catch up to our interests. This vehicle is awesome.

Your thread on your LX is actually what pushed me to go to the dealer and see one in person. And I agree the base model would be the way to go.

 

[desmocruiser]

Your thread on your LX is actually what pushed me to go to the dealer and see one in person. And I agree the base model would be the way to go.

Maybe Toyota’s method behind their madness is working perfectly!!!

 

[AnyMal]

Your thread on your LX is actually what pushed me to go to the dealer and see one in person. And I agree the base model would be the way to go.

You can love also love a RR, Escalade, X7, and a multitude of Mercedes. Please don’t give Lexus money for that piece of junk slap in the face that is the new LX.

 

[greynolds]

The CarPlay is a complicated issue. It is challenging with Apple’s desire to access other vehicle software and the cost to retrofit older vehicles is tremendous. Toyota negotiated for several years and eventually invested significantly when they retrofitted the Tacoma and 4Runner and most other models a few years ago. They may have been the last manufacturer to offer CarPlay.

I was just mentioning CarPlay as a potential feature that might get removed on a theoretical $50-60K version of a 300 series Land Cruiser for the US market to get it down to that price point. Leather seats might also get replaced with cloth, etc. I wasn’t asking why the LC200 never got CarPlay.

 

[Jetboy]

The base model in Japan is $46,500. The GR off-road trim is $76k iirc. Toyota Gibraltar doesn't publish pricing for the true base base models, but id bet they're under $40k. Of course that's a 1gr, A750 no radio at all version.

The easy reference on price is the tundra. It's very similar. Base turbo V6 4x4 crewmax is $43k. That's right where the LC300 would be priced in a competitive market in a base trim with interior similar to an sr tundra. It's not uniquely expensive to design or produce. Most of the cost of vehicle design is the stuff between the radiator and dash. And those parts are all effectively the same between the tundra and LC. It's just brilliant marketing to convince the emperor that the clothes are real.