2024 GX/Prado Release and Discussion (5 Viewers)

[m4hk33]

You’ve got a point and kind of made me think…

If I were Toyota I would spin out Land Cruiser into its own brand. The thought never really occurred to me before. But I can see that kind of solving some brand identity issues going on, and allow for a higher / lower price points to make sense. The badge is very bloated with economy options and BoF options, including some that nobody bought (LC). They have really failed to market them properly in the US at least.

Sell the highlander and rav 4 and whatever bs you want, but leave the real stuff separate to stand out. I mean personally i would never drive a toyota, but LC is major exception. Its got nothing in common other than reliability.

I think it could work. It works for Jeep.

The SUV's that sell really well in the US all have the same thing on common. That's the ability to configure you vehicle as desired.

You want a bare bones 2 door manual Bronco convertible, cool, 35k. Want a bronco raptor cool, 70k. That sort of works for me.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

You’ve got a point and kind of made me think…

If I were Toyota I would spin out Land Cruiser into its own brand. The thought never really occurred to me before. But I can see that kind of solving some brand identity issues going on, and allow for a higher / lower price points to make sense. The badge is very bloated with economy options right next to the BoF options, including some that nobody bought (LC). They have really failed to market them properly in the US at least.

Sell the highlander and rav 4 and whatever bs you want, but leave the real stuff separate to stand out. I mean personally i would never drive a toyota, but LC is major exception. Its got nothing in common other than reliability.

For those of us that loved the FJ Cruiser, the one the new Land Cruiser will replace, it did not matter that it was part of Toyota.

Last time Toyota tried the separate brand idea, Scion, it did not work out so well...

https://www.palmerstoyota.com/blog/scion-vehicles-getting-rebranded-toyota-models/

 

[greynolds]

For those of us that loved the FJ Cruiser, the one the new Land Cruiser will replace, it did not matter that it was part of Toyota.

I always felt like they completely blew a great opportunity there. There were hints of the classic FJ-40 look, but it was way too curvy (at least IMHO) and had really bad blind spots. As I said a few times above, if they had taken the approach Mercedes did with the relatively recent G-wagon redesign where the old and new model are shockingly similar looking, even from relatively close up, I suspect it would have done better while it was on the market. But they clearly did something right as the demand for used FJ Cruisers is pretty amazing even though it was pretty much a failure (based on numbers sold) while Toyota was still selling them.

 

[AnyMal]

For those of us that loved the FJ Cruiser, the one the new Land Cruiser will replace, it did not matter that it was part of Toyota.

Last time Toyota tried the separate brand idea, Scion, it did not work out so well...

https://www.palmerstoyota.com/blog/scion-vehicles-getting-rebranded-toyota-models/

LOOOL I totally forgot about that one.

Scion is LITERALLY the opposite of what I'm talking about though.
An edgy, downmarket, econo s*** box "brand". While technically true, that is as apple to oranges as it gets.
I would not venture that far out.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

I always felt like they completely blew a great opportunity there. There were hints of the classic FJ-40 look, but it was way too curvy (at least IMHO) and had really bad blind spots. As I said a few times above, if they had taken the approach Mercedes did with the relatively recent G-wagon redesign where the old and new model are shockingly similar looking, even from relatively close up, I suspect it would have done better while it was on the market. But they clearly did something right as the demand for used FJ Cruisers is pretty amazing even though it was pretty much a failure (based on numbers sold) while Toyota was still selling them.

I feel that Toyota dropped the ball with the FJ Cruiser. They teased us for a couple of years with TLCs prototypes of Bandeirante bodies with 1st gen Tacoma drivetrains, a removable top and solid front axle. I feel that if Toyota had offered THAT with the 1GR-FE and coil suspension as the FJ Cruiser, it would have put Jeep out of business.

 

[Captndcoke]

was reading some posts in club lexus-

"024 GX550 = "Militaristic", G-Wagen meets 70-Series LC styling with loads of tech (see page 1), to fight the Defender.
2024 TX500h = lexus 3row family suv (lexus grand highlander) Yes! Also TX 550h+ this Christmas
2024 Land Cruiser = J180, old GX460 market Retro, boxy interpretation of FJ45 + J78W married together, on new Prado basis. FJ Cruiser like. Japanese seem more excited than Americans over it.
2025 4runner = 4runner"

 

[AnyMal]

was reading some posts in club lexus-

"024 GX550 = "Militaristic", G-Wagen meets 70-Series LC styling with loads of tech (see page 1), to fight the Defender.
2024 TX500h = lexus 3row family suv (lexus grand highlander) Yes! Also TX 550h+ this Christmas
2024 Land Cruiser = J180, old GX460 market Retro, boxy interpretation of FJ45 + J78W married together, on new Prado basis. FJ Cruiser like. Japanese seem more excited than Americans over it.
2025 4runner = 4runner"

100% what i see happening.
Ive been saying the GX is what I'm most excited about and all lies on younger brothers shoulders now.

I will say that itll be nothing like a G lol. Thats one of the best selling SUVs in the country and T is scared out of their mind of change.
Would love to eat these words, and buy one...

 

[TexasFunRunner]

was reading some posts in club lexus-

"024 GX550 = "Militaristic", G-Wagen meets 70-Series LC styling with loads of tech (see page 1), to fight the Defender.
2024 TX500h = lexus 3row family suv (lexus grand highlander) Yes! Also TX 550h+ this Christmas
2024 Land Cruiser = J180, old GX460 market Retro, boxy interpretation of FJ45 + J78W married together, on new Prado basis. FJ Cruiser like. Japanese seem more excited than Americans over it.
2025 4runner = 4runner"

Thank you, great intel, there's hope yet for us FJ Cruiser lovers, hopefully with better visibility this time.

 

[Jetboy]

For those of us that loved the FJ Cruiser, the one the new Land Cruiser will replace, it did not matter that it was part of Toyota.

Last time Toyota tried the separate brand idea, Scion, it did not work out so well...

https://www.palmerstoyota.com/blog/scion-vehicles-getting-rebranded-toyota-models/

I'm not sure lot of buyers care that the badge says Toyota vs Lexus. For me Lexus = Toyota. It's a trademark that identifies the source known for quality, durability, and reliability. Whether you buy a Corolla, a Rav4, or a LC70 - you expect the best durability testing in the world and manufacturing standards that are second to none. For off-road or utility vehicles, that's what I want. I plan to go use them in the dirt where the reliability matters more than the soft touch interior panels.

100% what i see happening.
Ive been saying the GX is what I'm most excited about and all lies on younger brothers shoulders now.

I will say that itll be nothing like a G lol. Thats one of the best selling SUVs in the country and T is scared out of their mind of change.
Would love to eat these words, and buy one...

The G Wagon sells less than 10k per year in the USA. Not sure what country you're in, but it's not a very high volume seller in the USA. I don't think Toyota would be very pleased if the GX550 only sold 800 per month.

 

[desmocruiser]

I'm not sure lot of buyers care that the badge says Toyota vs Lexus. For me Lexus = Toyota. It's a trademark that identifies the source known for quality, durability, and reliability. Whether you buy a Corolla, a Rav4, or a LC70 - you expect the best durability testing in the world and manufacturing standards that are second to none. For off-road or utility vehicles, that's what I want. I plan to go use them in the dirt where the reliability matters more than the soft touch interior panels.

The G Wagon sells less than 10k per year in the USA. Not sure what country you're in, but it's not a very high volume seller in the USA. I don't think Toyota would be very pleased if the GX550 only sold 800 per month.

Personally, I think many Land Cruiser buyers care if it says Lexus LX or Toyota Land Cruiser, which is the primary topic of the thread, they already have a 300 series in the states sold with the Lexus badge.

Many Land Cruisers sale not only because of the quality and reliability, but what they represent. Ironically so does the G Wagon, which now present as a diametrically opposed impression, which is sad because G wagon’s are bad a$$ off road trucks hand built in Austria, but most see them as a ostentatious display of wealth.

 

[chrisratz]

Lexus vs Toyota matters quite a bit to me. If I could get a Toyota Land Cruiser with the same specs and price as the base LX600 I'd be very happy. We went to check out the LX600 last weekend, and its an impressive truck for sure. But the huge grill and Lexus badge just doesn't suit me, I wouldn't be comfortable driving it.

 

[m4hk33]

Personally, I think many Land Cruiser buyers care if it says Lexus LX or Toyota Land Cruiser, which is the primary topic of the thread, they already have a 300 series in the states sold with the Lexus badge.

Many Land Cruisers sale not only because of the quality and reliability, but what they represent. Ironically so does the G Wagon, which now present as a diametrically opposed impression, which is sad because G wagon’s are bad a$$ off road trucks hand built in Austria, but most see them as a ostentatious display of wealth.

I would agree with a caveat regarding LX vs LC badging. I think the reason the both struggle in the US market is self inflicted. The LX not only has a polarizing front end, it also carries a 100k buy in price. The LC struggled because chose to peg it to a single premium Trim levels and basically not support it.

As much as i am a fan of the capability, and reliability of the land cruiser, I think it is a mistake to market the LC as a flagship as quite frankly, LC are seen as utilitarian, everyday vehicles in every other market. I work in the middle east and it seems like ever other person over here has a white 200 series LC GX which sold for around 50k.

The LC doesn't work as a flagship because its really not one. They were competing a legit utility vehicle against Escalades, Audi's RSQ8's with Lamborghini engines, AMG MB's Porsche Cayennes. They were ill suited to compete with purpose built luxury SUV's. That doesn't mean the the LC is a bad vehicle, it was simply the wrong tool for the job

They were well suited in 2008, not 2020 to launch a heritage edition LC to compete with the newly released jeep Rubicon and ford raptor. The 4runner went from selling 40k units per year from 2008 to 2014 and jumped up to 140k per year once they made once TRD options a thing.

Fast forward to today, They are selling their most capable off road vehicle, the LX, as a luxury SUV, and marketing the Sequoia with a TRD Pro option.

I think this should be reversed, I think Lexus should market the larger capstone level sequoia/w double panoramic roof as an executive people mover with 500hp/500tq. I think that Toyota should sell the LC in Base and TRD Trim with the standard engine and decent cargo space.

Considering they are already sending the 300 series to the US, i would suggest sending the right 300's to the right places.

 

[Specialeyes]

I don’t mind the L badge itself. In fact I actually like a lot of the things you get with the Lexus brand. (Build quality, refinement, dealership experience, etc) What turns me off on their current products is strictly styling. The big mouth grill just doesn’t work for me on most of their line up but it’s the most offensive on the GX and LX.

 

[greynolds]

Lexus vs Toyota matters quite a bit to me. If I could get a Toyota Land Cruiser with the same specs and price as the base LX600 I'd be very happy. We went to check out the LX600 last weekend, and its an impressive truck for sure. But the huge grill and Lexus badge just doesn't suit me, I wouldn't be comfortable driving it.

If they offered an offroad variant of the LX without the goofy huge front grill, would you care if it was still under the Lexus brand? For me, I don't really care if they call it a Toyota or Lexus as long as the features match my needs.

 

[AnyMal]

I'm not sure lot of buyers care that the badge says Toyota vs Lexus. For me Lexus = Toyota. It's a trademark that identifies the source known for quality, durability, and reliability. Whether you buy a Corolla, a Rav4, or a LC70 - you expect the best durability testing in the world and manufacturing standards that are second to none. For off-road or utility vehicles, that's what I want. I plan to go use them in the dirt where the reliability matters more than the soft touch interior panels.

The G Wagon sells less than 10k per year in the USA. Not sure what country you're in, but it's not a very high volume seller in the USA. I don't think Toyota would be very pleased if the GX550 only sold 800 per month.

No i agree, the GX is the best seller, sorry it read poorly. They will not copy some niche (G or otherwise) in that platform and i will put money on it being conservative.

 

[AnyMal]

I would agree with a caveat regarding LX vs LC badging. I think the reason the both struggle in the US market is self inflicted. The LX not only has a polarizing front end, it also carries a 100k buy in price. The LC struggled because chose to peg it to a single premium Trim levels and basically not support it.

As much as i am a fan of the capability, and reliability of the land cruiser, I think it is a mistake to market the LC as a flagship as quite frankly, LC are seen as utilitarian, everyday vehicles in every other market. I work in the middle east and it seems like ever other person over here has a white 200 series LC GX which sold for around 50k.

The LC doesn't work as a flagship because its really not one. They were competing a legit utility vehicle against Escalades, Audi's RSQ8's with Lamborghini engines, AMG MB's Porsche Cayennes. They were ill suited to compete with purpose built luxury SUV's. That doesn't mean the the LC is a bad vehicle, it was simply the wrong tool for the job

They were well suited in 2008, not 2020 to launch a heritage edition LC to compete with the newly released jeep Rubicon and ford raptor. The 4runner went from selling 40k units per year from 2008 to 2014 and jumped up to 140k per year once they made once TRD options a thing.

Fast forward to today, They are selling their most capable off road vehicle, the LX, as a luxury SUV, and marketing the Sequoia with a TRD Pro option.

I think this should be reversed, I think Lexus should market the larger capstone level sequoia/w double panoramic roof as an executive people mover with 500hp/500tq. I think that Toyota should sell the LC in Base and TRD Trim with the standard engine and decent cargo space.

Considering they are already sending the 300 series to the US, i would suggest sending the right 300's to the right places.

Oh no thats too much rational thinking for Toyota! Youre fired!

 

[AnyMal]

I don’t mind the L badge itself. In fact I actually like a lot of the things you get with the Lexus brand. (Build quality, refinement, dealership experience, etc) What turns me off on their current products is strictly styling. The big mouth grill just doesn’t work for me on most of their line up but it’s the most offensive on the GX and LX.

If they offered an offroad variant of the LX without the goofy huge front grill, would you care if it was still under the Lexus brand? For me, I don't really care if they call it a Toyota or Lexus as long as the features match my needs.

Yep. I prefer Lexus too. Better sound systems, better leather, real wood etc.

What people miss is that an ES is just a top level trim Camry. I wouldnt really consider it flashy either. Its the ostentatious designs that makes people feel weird. Like the LX now trying to be even more rear seat oriented. On one hand its trying to be much more than it is (its not german or uber luxury) and it needs to be toned down. On the other hand, its wayy too much for the “utilitarian” truck (as someone put well) LC client is looking for.

Nothing about the situation makes any logical sense. Now we are going to get a hot-wheels style “cruiser” on top of this? I Hope not.

I Hope the GX gets an aggressive trim out option at the very least. But im afraid its going to follow 600s lead and try to be something its not.

 

[chrisratz]

If they offered an offroad variant of the LX without the goofy huge front grill, would you care if it was still under the Lexus brand? For me, I don't really care if they call it a Toyota or Lexus as long as the features match my needs.

That would certainly be a move in the right direction.

But for me there's something really special about the Land Cruiser name. I've been in love with them ever since seeing a 60 series when I was a kid. I finally bought a 100 series in 2007 and kept it for 15 years, its been my favorite vehicle so far. Last year I got an electric truck, and gave my 100 series to my brother. If the 300 series Land Cruiser came back to the US I'd happily give up the electric truck to get one.

 

[AnyMal]

That would certainly be a move in the right direction.

But for me there's something really special about the Land Cruiser name. I've been in love with them ever since seeing a 60 series when I was a kid. I finally bought a 100 series in 2007 and kept it for 15 years, its been my favorite vehicle so far. Last year I got a Rivian, and gave my 100 series to my brother. If the 300 series Land Cruiser came back to the US I'd happily give up the Rivian to get one.

You and everybody else. Why that is not capitalized on globally is a huge missed opportunity for Toyota. Why on earth this platform with resounding global success is still reserved to “best kept secret” status is the dumbest thing ive ever seen.

 

[Devils Paw 80]

Lexus vs Toyota matters quite a bit to me. If I could get a Toyota Land Cruiser with the same specs and price as the base LX600 I'd be very happy. We went to check out the LX600 last weekend, and its an impressive truck for sure. But the huge grill and Lexus badge just doesn't suit me, I wouldn't be comfortable driving it.

One of my neighbors, a retired judge, seems overly impressed that I have a Lexus. To him it's clearly a status symbol, despite my protestations that it's simply a rebadged Land Cruiser. So yeah, I'm not wild about that public perception. OTOH, I prefer all the small differences distinguishing a LX 450 from the LC 80, so no complaints there. On newer models, it seems like there's much more luxury associated with the Lexus variation. Besides the price, the gaudy grille alone would prevent me from owning the current offering.

BTW, Toyota will have a new CEO in April when Mr. Toyoda steps down. This could shake things up a bit at the company.