2024 GX/Prado Release and Discussion (3 Viewers)

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New teaser pics of the GX yesterday. And the Ranger was released.

GX-Teaser1-copy.jpg


GX looks like a low flat hood. Does not give me G wagon vibes at all. Or modern LC70 for that matter - although it has some hint of the XJ700 concept. To me it says Defender. IMO that's a good sign that it'll have tall glass - you can get a pretty good idea by the wiper length and vertical angle of the A pillar that it'll have tall greenhouse with a lot of glass. I like that aspect a lot. And rear glass moves the wiper to the bottom. I think it's a better design to have at the top where it's protected instead of being at the bottom to collect dirt and rocks to abrade the rear glass with. But the base looks like it has a finger hook that suggests that at least the glass opens.

Ranger base engine is likely equivalent to Toyota's top engine in the Tacoma for all non-TRD Pro models. And then the Ranger has two TTv6 options up to 405hp, long travel, 33's, dual lockers, and fancy fox suspension. $56k. I don't think a 310hp hybrid Tacoma TRD Pro is going to stack up very well. Possibly Toyota has something up its sleeve like a TTv6 Taco or a new engine we haven't seen yet. If not - the new Tacoma release is going to seem a bit deflated when the top spec model is only competitive with the mid range of the Ford Ranger lineup and the high volume models are well short. I'm making an assumption that the Taco TRD Pro is the same powertrain as the new LC model, so I'm curious to see what it is.
 
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New teaser pics of the GX yesterday. And the Ranger was released.

GX-Teaser1-copy.jpg


GX looks like a low flat hood. Does not give me G wagon vibes at all. Or modern LC70 for that matter - although it has some hint of the XJ700 concept. To me it says Defender. IMO that's a good sign that it'll have tall glass - you can get a pretty good idea by the wiper length and vertical angle of the A pillar that it'll have tall greenhouse with a lot of glass. I like that aspect a lot. And rear glass moves the wiper to the bottom. I think it's a better design to have at the top where it's protected instead of being at the bottom to collect dirt and rocks to abrade the rear glass with. But the base looks like it has a finger hook that suggests that at least the glass opens.

Ranger base engine is likely equivalent to Toyota's top engine in the Tacoma for all non-TRD Pro models. And then the Ranger has two TTv6 options up to 405hp, long travel, 33's, dual lockers, and fancy fox suspension. $56k. I don't think a 310hp hybrid Tacoma TRD Pro is going to stack up very well. Possibly Toyota has something up its sleeve like a TTv6 Taco or a new engine we haven't seen yet. If not - the new Tacoma release is going to seem a bit deflated when the top spec model is only competitive with the mid range of the Ford Ranger lineup and the high volume models are well short. I'm making an assumption that the Taco TRD Pro is the same powertrain as the new LC model, so I'm curious to see what it is.
I like what I see so far. Bring on the full reveal!
 
New teaser pics of the GX yesterday. And the Ranger was released.

GX-Teaser1-copy.jpg


GX looks like a low flat hood. Does not give me G wagon vibes at all. Or modern LC70 for that matter - although it has some hint of the XJ700 concept. To me it says Defender. IMO that's a good sign that it'll have tall glass - you can get a pretty good idea by the wiper length and vertical angle of the A pillar that it'll have tall greenhouse with a lot of glass. I like that aspect a lot. And rear glass moves the wiper to the bottom. I think it's a better design to have at the top where it's protected instead of being at the bottom to collect dirt and rocks to abrade the rear glass with. But the base looks like it has a finger hook that suggests that at least the glass opens.

Ranger base engine is likely equivalent to Toyota's top engine in the Tacoma for all non-TRD Pro models. And then the Ranger has two TTv6 options up to 405hp, long travel, 33's, dual lockers, and fancy fox suspension. $56k. I don't think a 310hp hybrid Tacoma TRD Pro is going to stack up very well. Possibly Toyota has something up its sleeve like a TTv6 Taco or a new engine we haven't seen yet. If not - the new Tacoma release is going to seem a bit deflated when the top spec model is only competitive with the mid range of the Ford Ranger lineup and the high volume models are well short. I'm making an assumption that the Taco TRD Pro is the same powertrain as the new LC model, so I'm curious to see what it is.

Neet. The glimpse has a defender feel to which is cool. Just really comes down to how the package the line up

The current 4Runner was a 4.0 V6 with 270hp/278tq with a tow rating of 5k
the Step up GX was a 4.6hp V8 with 300hp/329tq with a tow rating of 6.6k

Maybe the Tacoma/Prado/4runner are going to have the a 315hp 4banger, whereas the GX will have the Tundra/sequoia engine. a GX with Tundra engine would be interesting, especially if they have a heritage edition, that has the same sheet metal/bumber as the LC.
 
Neet. The glimpse has a defender feel to which is cool. Just really comes down to how the package the line up

The current 4Runner was a 4.0 V6 with 270hp/278tq with a tow rating of 5k
the Step up GX was a 4.6hp V8 with 300hp/329tq with a tow rating of 6.6k

Maybe the Tacoma/Prado/4runner are going to have the a 315hp 4banger, whereas the GX will have the Tundra/sequoia engine. a GX with Tundra engine would be interesting, especially if they have a heritage edition, that has the same sheet metal/bumber as the LC.
The one source I know of said GX gets the 3.5 turbo 6 and the land cruiser version is turbo 4 hybrid. Those two being basically twins.

And turbo 4 hybrid only comes in TRD pro Tacoma. But 4runner may get the turbo 6, still TBD.
 
The one source I know of said GX gets the 3.5 turbo 6 and the land cruiser version is turbo 4 hybrid. Those two being basically twins.

And turbo 4 hybrid only comes in TRD pro Tacoma. But 4runner may get the turbo 6, still TBD.

Giving the LC a 4 cylinder and the 4 Runner a 6 cylinder would be horrible. If anything the LC should be the capstone trim of the Prado line and get the top engine.
 
The one source I know of said GX gets the 3.5 turbo 6 and the land cruiser version is turbo 4 hybrid. Those two being basically twins.

And turbo 4 hybrid only comes in TRD pro Tacoma. But 4runner may get the turbo 6, still TBD.

hmmm.

So we may be looking at
GX/4R 415hp/440tq
LC 300hp/400tq

Knowing no additional information, what do you think the value proposition of the LC over the 4R? If the cargo area is going to be compromised by being a hybrid, why not go with the sequoia power plant? 440hp/580tq with no 3rd row is very interesting and could be compared to the Bronco Raptor, Defender and Wrangler 392. a 300hp/400tq LC just feels somewhat marginal.
 
Giving the LC a 4 cylinder and the 4 Runner a 6 cylinder would be horrible. If anything the LC should be the capstone trim of the Prado line and get the top engine.
It doesn't make much sense to me. But Toyota does odd things. Sequoia having better performance than the lx600 for example. Or the 4th gen 4runner, Sequoia, gx470, and lc100 sharing the same engines. I agree it would be really odd to see a 4runner with higher HP engine options than the LC. The person who said that said that it was initially it was only turbo 4 and they were at least considering a turbo 6 but no decision yet.

I think the bronco is really concerning for Toyota in this market because it's eating Toyota's lunch. Bad. And Toyota has to know that a 270hp 4cyl isnt going to be enough for a top engine.
 
hmmm.

So we may be looking at
GX/4R 415hp/440tq
LC 300hp/400tq

Knowing no additional information, what do you think the value proposition of the LC over the 4R? If the cargo area is going to be compromised by being a hybrid, why not go with the sequoia power plant? 440hp/580tq with no 3rd row is very interesting and could be compared to the Bronco Raptor, Defender and Wrangler 392. a 300hp/400tq LC just feels somewhat marginal.

I have no idea. I can't figure out why Toyota would have 4 midsize BOF SUVs that are all so similar. I can at least get the idea of Toyota and Lexus having versions of the same vehicle. It's just a higher trim package. But having two Toyotas that are the same thing? I don't have a clue why that makes sense. Not unless the land cruiser is a really hardcore 4x4. But the Defender and Discovery are the same car with different skins for the same price. I guess it works there. Maybe it'll work here?
 
I have no idea. I can't figure out why Toyota would have 4 midsize BOF SUVs that are all so similar. I can at least get the idea of Toyota and Lexus having versions of the same vehicle. It's just a higher trim package. But having two Toyotas that are the same thing? I don't have a clue why that makes sense. Not unless the land cruiser is a really hardcore 4x4. But the Defender and Discovery are the same car with different skins for the same price. I guess it works there. Maybe it'll work here?

Its an odd approach to say the least.

The only thing that really makes sense would be something like the follow.

The LC replaces the SR5 4 Runner, is available with no options, has triple lockers and is priced at 40K (targeting adventure/builders)
The 4 Runner, only offers limited starting at 50k and TRD Pro Starting at 60. (Targeting soccer moms and TRD Bros)
The GX base stars at 60 and premium at 80 (targeting affluent, low information moms that want a nice reliable car)
 
I don't see Toyota down marketing the Land Cruiser name like that. I think the 4Runner would be the I-4 models and the Land Cruiser would be the V-6 models and take the place of the TRD. GX would just be the Lexus version of the LC.

To be clear, I think the 4Runner and LC would get completely different sheet metal as well, not just engines.
 
I think the bronco is really concerning for Toyota in this market because it's eating Toyota's lunch. Bad. And Toyota has to know that a 270hp 4cyl isnt going to be enough for a top engine.


I keep hoping Toyota decides to actually step up in that market. A new 4Runner or Land Cruiser with a removable top and all of the accoutrements of a modern vehicle? Even if it's a turbo 4cyl and IFS I'll go over to the dealership, put a deposit down and order one sight unseen.

I 100% get why the Bronco is killing the 4Runner in sales. The Bronco is closer to what the FJ Cruiser should have been than what the FJ Cruiser actually was. Toyota could own the enthusiast off road market currently held by the Wrangler and Bronco, they just need to step up and not give another pedestrian effort.
 
I keep hoping Toyota decides to actually step up in that market. A new 4Runner or Land Cruiser with a removable top and all of the accoutrements of a modern vehicle? Even if it's a turbo 4cyl and IFS I'll go over to the dealership, put a deposit down and order one sight unseen.

I 100% get why the Bronco is killing the 4Runner in sales. The Bronco is closer to what the FJ Cruiser should have been than what the FJ Cruiser actually was. Toyota could own the enthusiast off road market currently held by the Wrangler and Bronco, they just need to step up and not give another pedestrian effort.
I sure hope they dont build a vehicle with ONLY a soft top. Absolutely useless for my needs and why I wouldn’t even consider a Bronco.
 
I sure hope they dont build a vehicle with ONLY a soft top. Absolutely useless for my needs and why I wouldn’t even consider a Bronco.

Both the Jeep and the Bronco have soft top and hard top options. You can order the Jeep with both tops. When my 40 was on the road, I ran the hard top in the winter and the soft top in the summer (or a bikini top).

That said, if the next iteration of Land Cruiser is soft top only, you'd still have the 4Runner, Sequoia, GX and LX to choose from.
 
Both the Jeep and the Bronco have soft top and hard top options. You can order the Jeep with both tops. When my 40 was on the road, I ran the hard top in the winter and the soft top in the summer (or a bikini top).

That said, if the next iteration of Land Cruiser is soft top only, you'd still have the 4Runner, Sequoia, GX and LX to choose from.
Some of us want an off-roader like the new Land Cruiser and don't want to have to deal with all the issues the new Bronco "hardtop" brings. The only thing hard about the new Bronco top is convincing the Ford dealer your delamination, cracks, leaks and wind noise are not "normal".

Some of us will never take off the top for a number of reasons, sunburn easily, hot as hades or just have no desire to. That is why the first generation Bronco and 70 series offered removable tops, completely unlike the junk on today's new Bronco. Since we know the new Land Cruiser will have a retro 70 series look, I for one hope Toyota offers a fixed top or if it is a removable top it is a heavy bolt on one like the first generation 70 series FRP Top (Fiberglass Reinforced Top).

img_1510-jpg.1405460
 
I will be absolutely shocked if it has any sort of removable top. I think Toyota should build something smaller - like rav4 size range as a BOF 4 door with short overhangs, great angles, 35s, a removeable top and an entry level price AND a new midsize BOF SUV that stays true to mission for the current 4Runner - a highway friendly truck with extra seats that can do family road trips and offroad stuff pretty well. No reason not to have one of each. A 110" wheel base would be fine if the overall length is 175 inches. That ends up significantly differentiated in size from a 112" wheelbase 4Runner/LC that would be more like 200-205" overall. Naming convention can go either way IMO.

What I won't understand until we see them both is why it makes sense to have 4 of the same thing with different names. In that case just pick one model for Toyota and one for Lexus. Call it 4Runner or Land Cruiser - I'm not sure it matters. It's something like 5 years delayed already on the 4Runner side from prototypes to market. Just get on with it. The designs are going to be stale before they ever see a showroom.
 
I’ve spent a fair amount of time driving a new TRD Sequoia. I would buy an Armada over the Sequoia, and i have been driving Toyotas / Land Cruisers since 1987. The Sequoia has a big battery in the cargo area. No AWD. No tow hooks. Cheap interior plastics. Gas mileage was about the same as my V8 powered 200. And it is about $30k too expensive for what it is. People complained that the LC200 was overpriced at USD$85k. The new Sequoia is way overpriced compared to that. Especially with all the additional junk Toyota thinks their average purchaser will pay pay for.

Armada is a lot cheaper, feels much better screwed together, and still has a simple and proven V8.

Of course, just my opinions. I am sure lots of people will love the Sequoia. It’s just not for me.
I'm glad I made the decision to get my 2021 TRD Pro in August 21 [and got lucky getting it at under MSRP with a great trade in for my VW right at the cusp of pricing insanity] - my goal was getting a capable and reliable truck that will last a long time and haul a lot of little people and things to places near and far. It has not disappointed and seeing the prices and capabilities of the new Sequoia I think I made the right move
I will be absolutely shocked if it has any sort of removable top. I think Toyota should build something smaller - like rav4 size range as a BOF 4 door with short overhangs, great angles, 35s, a removeable top and an entry level price AND a new midsize BOF SUV that stays true to mission for the current 4Runner - a highway friendly truck with extra seats that can do family road trips and offroad stuff pretty well. No reason not to have one of each. A 110" wheel base would be fine if the overall length is 175 inches. That ends up significantly differentiated in size from a 112" wheelbase 4Runner/LC that would be more like 200-205" overall. Naming convention can go either way IMO.

What I won't understand until we see them both is why it makes sense to have 4 of the same thing with different names. In that case just pick one model for Toyota and one for Lexus. Call it 4Runner or Land Cruiser - I'm not sure it matters. It's something like 5 years delayed already on the 4Runner side from prototypes to market. Just get on with it. The designs are going to be stale before they ever see a showroom.
Small RAV4 sized Toyota 4x4 competitor? Toyota licenses and rebadges Suzuki Jimny in USA and absolutely murders it....I'm only a little bit kidding
52620463372_de1bfa1229_k.jpg

Regardless, it will be fun to see what comes out of the new GX and the "maybe new Land Cruiser" for our shores.
 
I will be absolutely shocked if it has any sort of removable top. I think Toyota should build something smaller - like rav4 size range as a BOF 4 door with short overhangs, great angles, 35s, a removeable top and an entry level price AND a new midsize BOF SUV that stays true to mission for the current 4Runner - a highway friendly truck with extra seats that can do family road trips and offroad stuff pretty well. No reason not to have one of each. A 110" wheel base would be fine if the overall length is 175 inches. That ends up significantly differentiated in size from a 112" wheelbase 4Runner/LC that would be more like 200-205" overall. Naming convention can go either way IMO.

What I won't understand until we see them both is why it makes sense to have 4 of the same thing with different names. In that case just pick one model for Toyota and one for Lexus. Call it 4Runner or Land Cruiser - I'm not sure it matters. It's something like 5 years delayed already on the 4Runner side from prototypes to market. Just get on with it. The designs are going to be stale before they ever see a showroom.

That could be interesting.

The thing is if retro'ish vehicles are done correct they do incredibly well. the Challenger, the Bronco and maybe the wrangler, and despite their flaws they sell like hotcakes. Toyota has 4 opportunities to make something interesting. I would hope that this follows the same recipe/form factor as the bronco as we have seen in the last year, the reliability and value is no longer the main value proposition for Toyota.

one can't present a turbo charged v6 hybrid with the same fuel economy is 6.2L V8 and expect people to be like oh wow, especially with less cargo space as a bonus unless it is pretty much bomb proof.

Same thing applies to the new LC, If its a dog, or had marginal reliability, people will just roll the dice on something else.
 
I'm glad I made the decision to get my 2021 TRD Pro in August 21 [and got lucky getting it at under MSRP with a great trade in for my VW right at the cusp of pricing insanity] - my goal was getting a capable and reliable truck that will last a long time and haul a lot of little people and things to places near and far. It has not disappointed and seeing the prices and capabilities of the new Sequoia I think I made the right move

Small RAV4 sized Toyota 4x4 competitor? Toyota licenses and rebadges Suzuki Jimny in USA and absolutely murders it....I'm only a little bit kidding
52620463372_de1bfa1229_k.jpg

Regardless, it will be fun to see what comes out of the new GX and the "maybe new Land Cruiser" for our shores.

Toyota has talked about this in the last 5-10 years. Basically saying that there was a market for the equivalent of what the 4Runner is to the highlander to have a similar long travel body on frame offroad model sized to match roughly the Rav4. I'd love to be able to buy a Jimny. I just bought a Yamaha Rhino that I'm doing some mods to for my off road fix for a while since I'm 3,000 miles from my FJ40. But I looked around at all sorts of options. The Rhino is exceptionally capable off-road even with only 27" tall tires, but it's also small, noisy, has to be trailered, etc.

If I could buy a Jimny - I'd have been pretty likely to go that route. And I really do think that Toyota could pickup up a bunch of new sales by going right at the high end of the UTV market with a real SUV that's just as capable with a lot more to offer. IMO it's a much better value to be a true street legal SUV that can play in the dirt like a UTV. I think there's a real market - especially if it is flat towable, under 3k lbs, has long travel suspension, and can fit UTV tires for off highway use. It would be an no-brainer for me over a $40k CanAm Defender and that's a nearly 1 million vehicle/year market. It's not totally crazy to think that they could grab 50-100k sales with something like this.

Basically this with front and rear lockers and UTV style suspension setup - curb weight was 2700lbs, same as a Polaris Ranger Northstar with the full cab. It was even called a Toyota "FUNCRUISER" in some markets. Just sayin.
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Its an odd approach to say the least.

The only thing that really makes sense would be something like the follow.

The LC replaces the SR5 4 Runner, is available with no options, has triple lockers and is priced at 40K (targeting adventure/builders)
The 4 Runner, only offers limited starting at 50k and TRD Pro Starting at 60. (Targeting soccer moms and TRD Bros)
The GX base stars at 60 and premium at 80 (targeting affluent, low information moms that want a nice reliable car)
You need to add $10k to all those prices at minimum. A SR5 4x4 right now is $53k.
 
It looks like more information in coming out in regard
You need to add $10k to all those prices at minimum. A SR5 4x4 right now is $53k.
hmmm

You probably not wrong, BUT for at least the 4R, I was just going by the lowest price 4X4 SR5 which seem to be around 42k. Considering that the main competitor to prado will be the Bronco, that comes in around 37k,

I think that one of the aspects that people may miss that Jetboy pointed out above, is that the offroad segment now has 30k to 45k Polaris side by sides and regardless of how cool they are, a lot of people can't blow 40 grand an offroad toy, but they can afford a Base Jeep or Bronco, and throw some tires on it and still hit the trails as well as use it as a daily driver. In a time when everything is soo expensive, I really think there is space for a modular base model that can be built off of. I like nice stuff as much as the next guy, but damn, when I see 90 to 100k on 2500 trucks, It really makes me want to consider a work truck trim for basically half.

With that being said, I like what I am seeing with the Tacoma, being available with an OME lift, lockers, and 450lbs of torque is interesting.


The one source I know of said GX gets the 3.5 turbo 6 and the land cruiser version is turbo 4 hybrid. Those two being basically twins.

And turbo 4 hybrid only comes in TRD pro Tacoma. But 4runner may get the turbo 6, still TBD.

With the TRD Pro looking like 450lbs of torque, and by default, the LC, I wonder where this puts the power number for the GX and 4R. I am still trying to figure out what the LC is going to be marketed against vs the 4R?

Is this going to be another toyota move like when they decided to give the LX600 an underpowered base model engine thats standard in the $38k Tundra work truck.

Will toyota drop the base tundra engine in the 4Runner/GX or will they mess up a free lunch and figure out a way to drop in the highlander or sienna engine.
 
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